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  1. Arctic_Fox is offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Grahamstown
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    9

    Posted On:
    11/19/2007 9:16am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Fanchento (Fan Zee Dao)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    TKD, cracked knuckles and 3 hour exams...

    So I went to gatecrash a Tae-Kwon Do class recently - shits and giggles mostly, but also to ogle the chicks - and as it happens they were doing board breaking.

    "Great." Said I, who had been diligently training power and conditioning for some months now, "I'll show these fairies how to break wood." The instructor, a friend of mine, notices my cocky attitude and stacks up four boards for me, instead the two everyone else does. "Sweet." Says I, noticing the audience of women, and proceed to deliver the best damn cross punch I have ever delivered in my life.

    The board breaks with a resounding CRACK! Alas, so do the two top knuckles on my right hand. I grit my teeth, smile, and nod appreciatively when the instructor compliments me. I then proceed to spend the rest of the class whimpering at each strike, parry and jolting jump invovled in TKD, all the while conscious of the fact that I had two 3 hour exams to write in the next few days. Fun times, fun times...

    Anyway, the point of the whole story is how the hell do you effecitvely, without inducing long-term injury, condition your hands? I was first recommened knuckle push-ups, but was recently informed by someone with way too many letters before their name that knuckle push-ups wreck all kinds of havoc on the wrist. This PhD, Dr, ACME chap tells me that the best way to condition is to do bag work with gloves on a soft bag, and over time reduce and remove the gloves while working on harder bags.

    So I had been doing the bag-work conditioning for well over two years now as a routine, and have been working bare-fisted on a bag that is only slightly softer than a truck tyre. The mechanics of the punch seemed fine, so what went wrong? What is the best way to condition your fists?
  2. MaverickZ is offline

    Heavyweight

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    6,930

    Posted On:
    11/19/2007 9:48am

    supporting member
     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic_Fox
    Anyway, the point of the whole story is how the hell do you effecitvely, without inducing long-term injury, condition your hands?
    Don't be a cock.
  3. Jadonblade is offline
    Jadonblade's Avatar

    Hoo Ha!

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    england
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2007 10:21am

    supporting member
     Style: San Da, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You could go old school and start thrusting your hands through a bucket of sand (into the sand not through the bucket). Then work your way up through courser materials untill you have teh ir0n f1st.
  4. CNagy is offline
    CNagy's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2007 1:38pm


     Style: Hiatus for Gen. Fitness

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Man, I think you were set up, but I'll get to that in a second. Firstly, I personally do not believe it is a good idea to break with the knuckles. Too much can go wrong, even when it shouldn't. Better to break with the heel of the palm or the elbow.

    But here's where I think you got caught: wooden boards have a grain, its the pattern on the board and it shows you how the board is going to split (horizontally or vertically). If your "friend" who decided to call you on your cockiness decided to stack them so that the grain on one or two of them didn't match up, then he set you up to damage yourself.

    When the grain on the boards is all facing the same direction (i.e. they are all going to bend and break horizontally) then all you have to do is overcome the flexibility and hardness of those boards. If the grain alternates between boards, then you have to overcome the flexibility and hardness of a board that is not going to give in the same direction as the board before it. Let me try and illustrate.

    If board A has a horizontal grain, it will bend outward and break horizontally. If the board B (behind it) also has a horizontal grain, then A pushes against B along a line that it will also bend outward at and break along, with enough power.

    If board B has a vertical grain, however, then A is pushing against B across a line that it does not want to bend, thus B is reinforcing A. If you manage to break A, B is still a problem because you broke A along a line that B does not naturally break on.

    I go through the problem of explaining this because, unless you happen to be a really small guy, 4 average pine 12x12x1 boards (the standard as far as I've ever seen) is not supposed to give that kind of trouble. If there was a different material involved, that could also factor in.
  5. Kintanon is offline
    Kintanon's Avatar

    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Sep 2006
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    Athens, Ga
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2007 1:44pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Board holders, placement, and angle all can have effects as well. Even just rotating the boards 90 degrees changes the way you have to hit them to break them. Just like any other magic trick you have to prepare your props correctly. Also, human holders with 4 boards can be problematic. They often have a hard time holding them in a good grip and sometimes the boards slide around a little on impact. Anything that takes away from a good crisp impact makes injury more likely.

    I don't think the boards were set up crossgrain though, most people fail to break crossgrain. More likely you just didn't set everything up properly and hit at a slight angle or had boards there weren't lined up exactly right.
  6. Arctic_Fox is offline

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    Oct 2007
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    Grahamstown
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    Posted On:
    11/23/2007 11:52am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Fanchento (Fan Zee Dao)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ
    Don't be a cock.
    Yeah, real constructive. Fucking putz.

    The bucket of sand one sounds like a possiblity. The material will still give way some. I know that in general it's not the most practical idea to condition your hands to all **** and have the..ahem..."ir0n f1st", but I've been bar brawls and muggings where the situation doesn't grant you the luxury of planning out your attack. Especially the bar brawl situation, where an injury in a sustained fight really holds you back.

    I'm not so concerned about techniques and factors in breaking, as it's not something I do often, or find terribly useful, but have a level of conditioning is just a good idea.
  7. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Dec 2005
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    Posted On:
    11/23/2007 12:03pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you get in bar brawls enough to warrant conditioning your hands, then perhaps you should consider hanging out in different bars?
  8. MaverickZ is offline

    Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2007 12:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic_Fox
    Yeah, real constructive. Fucking putz.
    You went there with the intention of being a dick. Congratulations, you succeeded.
  9. Katje is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2007 1:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: Escrima n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic_Fox
    The bucket of sand one sounds like a possiblity. The material will still give way some. I know that in general it's not the most practical idea to condition your hands to all **** and have the..ahem..."ir0n f1st", but I've been bar brawls and muggings where the situation doesn't grant you the luxury of planning out your attack. Especially the bar brawl situation, where an injury in a sustained fight really holds you back.
    Unless you're punching concrete walls wouldn't any bags/boards/people you're punching have some give in them anyway?
  10. Fuzzy is offline
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    Welterweight

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    London
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    Posted On:
    11/24/2007 3:30am

    supporting member
     Style: DocePares/MMA(YawYan)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Boards do hit back?
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