Posted On:11/17/2007 12:28pm
Style: creonte on hiatus
Originally Posted by sempaiman
Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
Not only that, but he also points out the watering down of the Lil' Dragons programs. Don't get me wrong, they are great for little kids, and schools must make money to pay the bills, but it has caused a watering down of the arts.
It seems Joe is an old scrapper dealing with contradictory feelings. MMA (ans combat sports in general) are proving what needs to be proved (about what it takes to fight.) This he quietly approves, even if he's bitter that they are driving the last nail in their coffins.
Is this not the point I made in my thread about TMA and false advertising.
No. You didn't have a point to begin with. You started with a question, and a question is not a point.
Secondly the question was whether what you call TMA schools can be held legally liable for false advertisement regarding self-defense training if one of their students get mugged or injured. Though the question may be related to SOME (not all) of the points brought up by Joe Dojo, it is not the same.
Relatedness =/= equality.
BTW, I did find the question interesting and I tried to give you what IMO is the best answer possible (w/o the pics galore mind you.)
The problem is that you keep insisting in using TMA as some sort of martial arts classification. What the heck is a TMA? Do Judo, Wrestling, Boxing and Muay Thai classify as TMA? Does BJJ, which is older, has a clearer, more solid and better documented relation to old MAs (JMAs in this case) than many MAs that market themselves as TMAs? What exactly makes a MA a TMA, and how do apply this definition accross martial arts in a manner that's objective and acceptable to all parties that care about such definition?
I'd dare to say that MMA is older and more grounded on tradition (via Vale Tudo in Brazil) than many of the things that market themselves as TMAs. In my opinion, TMA is a false dichotomy, a fictitious classification with no practical applications.
I believe it's been (what I think is) the misuse of the term TMA more than anything that will get a thread derailed in no time.
I'm going to stop this now because this has been discussed ad nauseum. I strongly suggest you search existing threads discussing the nature of MAs/TMAs, or to create a new one to discuss this.
The only reason I'm bringing TMA into this thread is because it's as false a dichotomy as the dichotomy of "martial arts vs MMA" or "martial arts vs combat sports."
This is where Joe Dojo fucks up. He still cannot grasp the fact that MMA is martial arts. It's not that Martial Arts are death. They are alive and triving - MMA, BJJ, Judo, Boxing, Wrestling, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Kyokushin, San Da. Any martial arts that has a limb reaching into one form of combat sport venue or another is alive.
It's only those practices that do not deliver fighting abilities that are dead. They are dead because they stopped being Martial Arts a long time ago.
Are Martial Arts Dead? is the wrong title. It should have been "What's gonna happen to institutions that claim to be martial arts and yet do not efficiently deliver fighting skills?"
That's it. Enough derailment.
Last edited by Teh El Macho; 11/17/2007 12:33pm at .
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The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
Posted On:11/17/2007 12:37pm
Style: Tai Chi gymkata
Macho makes an articulate, albeit long winded point, MMA has killed the illusion that some MAer's had.
"An Axe kick can stop a tractor combine! But, only if the driver is not Korean!"
(that was actual quota from a Kang's TKD instructor I met some years ago. I never have figure out what the **** he meant. It has no point, I just thought it was funny!):qcheerlea
Posted On:11/17/2007 12:43pm
I find it rather amusing that Joe, who says he's not an athlete, is a smoker who doesn't run or lift weights and is a kung-fu fighter, says that martial arts is about becoming healthier and avoiding fights.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." – Voltaire.
International Man of Pancakes
Posted On:11/17/2007 12:51pm
Style: Wu style tcc+bjj
Originally Posted by Agis Silverfish
'MMA proves to this generation that none of the martial arts is worth a damn in a real fight.'
Can you spot the contradiction?
Well put, it's a time of radical change and some people are getting left behind. It's more radical today, but I think there always was and always should be change. It' all about yin and yang, man.
Originally Posted by ViciousFlaming
What's interesting is that the appearance of the ghost of Banquo is what signals the beginning of the end for Macbeth, the start of a delusional downward spiral that engulfs him for the rest of his life.
And who is Lady Macbeth?
The King is dead. Long live the King!
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
Posted On:11/17/2007 2:07pm
Style: in hiatus
ARE martial arts dead? No, because you still have MT, KK, BJJ, etc. Are "TMA" dead? short answer No, long answer.
You still have new students joining karate schools despite the fact that they are losing the prime of their students to MMA schools.
What Joe seem to bitter about is the fact that many "TMA" schools are selling out by watering down their training, becoming more kid friendly, making it more of a family themed activity and damping out the point of eastern martial arts - FIGHTING. This leads to invalid skills and false faith that their style could work in a fight.
It isn't the arrival of MMA that is killing off "TMA", its the fact that there are taped fights of kung fu and karate guys losing to the MMA crowd that is driving the nail in our coffin.
BJJ wins again!
Posted On:11/17/2007 3:46pm
Joe's not the smoker. The smoker described himself as "not an athlete, a kung fu fighter." Presumably, he didn't think he was training in how to avoid fighting for the rest of his life.
The "traditional martial arts" this guy is lamenting the death of are not traditional martial arts. What he's mourning is the passing of the last century or so of East-Asian martial arts, particularly the post-WWII period. Before that, I doubt many "martial artists" even in the mysterious and mystical Orient would have sneered at the idea of wrestling an opponent to the ground, pinning him there and striking him, the way Joe and his buddy sneer at "Ground and Pound." Those people didn't necessarily buy into the ideas the Karate Kid generation now ascribes to them. They could have done a million different things to learn focus and self-control and patience. They chose to learn how to fight, most of them, because they had a need to fight for various reasons.
He might as well be bitching that people don't paint in Realist or Impressionist style or whatever style people don't see a lot of nowadays. Those styles are interesting, and they can be good when executed well by someone who knows what he's doing, but they're not the only way to paint. There are many other ways, and some of them work a lot better for what a lot of artists are trying to do today.
Posted On:11/17/2007 3:58pm
Hmm, extended Socratic dialogue from an unnamed source. I call bullshit.
Posted On:11/17/2007 4:57pm
You and you gratuituous display of logic. :biblethum
Posted On:11/17/2007 6:39pm
Haven't Ayn Rand and Frank Herbert taught you anything? That's totally how people talk.
"The only important elements in any society
are the artistic and the criminal,
because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany
RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS
THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER
It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
Posted On:11/17/2007 7:17pm
Answer to the topic:
No. It's just that a buncha tards masquerading as martial artists are being exposed in ever greater numbers as the LARPers they are.
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