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  1. metushtal is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/07/2007 10:48am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    sorry but the fight in the vid just looks like a bad kickboxing
  2. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/07/2007 11:07am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    metushtal, what you say is perhaps so, but that's irrelevant. Please stick to the subject at hand.

    Here is MABS, in this particular section of the website, and for this thread in particular, what's relevant is the accuracy of the historical claims made by the proponents/exponents of Rumi Maki.

    There are other sections in this website where you are more than free to criticize from a technical level, or even ridicule if you wish. So, if you can help explore, study or criticize the historical accuracy of Rumi Maki's claims, please do so. If not, then...

    This goes not just to you, but to the others as well. Thanks.

    tamunangero, thanks for your long, well written post. I'm looking forward to hear more from you, in particular about your studies in garrote larense.

    So, do you think it is possible that Rumi Maki is an autochtonous system, however unrefined it would be? Perhaps its claims to be directly descendent from an Incan tradition are nebulous, but if it's trully autoctonous and not just some recent new-age concotion, that's something I would like to see and read more.

    I'm quite skeptical due to so many frauds and inventions we see today that claim a connection with pre-columbian pasts, which do a great disservice to the preservation of our history. But, I'd be more than happy to hear about things that are for real.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 12/07/2007 11:11am at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  3. Toby Christensen is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/07/2007 6:14pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Using bag as aggro outlet

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    El Macho,

    From what I've read you seem to have heritage from around the country you speak of, so why not find the legitimate representatives of said culture? In this day and age we have the Web.

    That's how I found the Ulfhednir society and learned of the Danish War Museum. Surely Peru has an equivalent. Rumi Maki may well be to Peruvian culture what Stav is to Scandinavian culture. It doesn't mean legitimate stuff doesn't exist.
    What am I?:

    I am ignorant, thieving, lying, hypocrital, violent and thoroughly self obssessed. I steal from others to make myself look better, only to make the item or information worse.

    I go on and on and ON about how brave and strong and brilliant and wealthy I am, but in the end I'm all mouth and no trousers.

    That's right children, I'm your average AMERICUNT! and I exemplify AMERICA!:911flag:

    :occasion1

    JohnnyCache's "retort" proving how much he knows about medicine and geography and First World countries:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...=78188&page=22

    Yes, through persistent lack of work and the cultivation of ignorance, he is a true American.
  4. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/07/2007 8:17pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've just emailed a peruvian friend asking about this. Let's see if he can provide first hand info.

    @AngrySpastic,
    El Macho is from Nicaragua, Peru is "a bit" at the south from there.
  5. Toby Christensen is offline

    Martial mediocrite

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    Posted On:
    12/07/2007 8:27pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Using bag as aggro outlet

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh.

    I thought El Macho was from Peru. My mistake. I know where both countries are.
    What am I?:

    I am ignorant, thieving, lying, hypocrital, violent and thoroughly self obssessed. I steal from others to make myself look better, only to make the item or information worse.

    I go on and on and ON about how brave and strong and brilliant and wealthy I am, but in the end I'm all mouth and no trousers.

    That's right children, I'm your average AMERICUNT! and I exemplify AMERICA!:911flag:

    :occasion1

    JohnnyCache's "retort" proving how much he knows about medicine and geography and First World countries:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...=78188&page=22

    Yes, through persistent lack of work and the cultivation of ignorance, he is a true American.
  6. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 6:49am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've just received an e-mail from my peruvian friend.

    Long story short: Juan Ramon Rodriguez Flores (peruvian Bujinkan Shidoshi) Rumi-Maki is made up BS.

    The fight seen in the video clip posted is not BS, this is a form of ritual fighting done by peruvian highlanders in honour of Pachamama but there is no formal training nor can be traced to pre-columbine warrior castes military h2h.

    I find somehow funny how, in the Rumi-Maki website, we can read things like:

    Conditioning is an important component of Rumi Maki. To survive in the Andean environment required a strong body which is still reflected in Rumi Maki. Physical conditioning was an innate part of daily life so a good portion of the martial conditioning was mental. This mental conditioning in Rumi Maki seeks to develop the practitioner’s tolerance of pain, control of fear and instinct. Certain ceremonies are still carried out to this day in Peru that contain aspects relevant to conditioning in Rumi Maki.
    However, the real mental conditioning used by the fighters seen in the video for their ritual fights is done by chewing coca leaves, drinking alcoholic beverages or/and San Pedro cactusjuice.

    The physical conditioning comes from hard manual work in a very hard environment like Andean highlands.

    So what is seen in the video is basically intoxicated untrained redneck badasses beating the crap of each other for religious purposes.

    Another interesting thing is: the Rumi-Maki book is not available in peruvian bookstores and there's not a spanish language edition. The niche-target is ignorant gringos, like the infamous "Sevillian Steel", also written by another ninjer.
  7. Tom .C is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 8:06am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Aikido,Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It is just too common for dubious martial arts to claim historical precedent as a way of establishing legitamacy. It is common for these arts to be based on some features common to martial arts from the historical area. Does this martial art seem to be based on local martial arts or does it just appear as another rip off of existing styles? I also would like to know if the book is a waste of money, or if there are any redeeming qualities that would make this book worth while?
  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 8:12am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just as I suspected. Thanks DCS. The one good thing about this is that we can get to see wired-up dudes beating the **** off each other. No matter what, that's always good and a million times better than the ninjers :)
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  9. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 9:16am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can't seem to find much about Rumi Maki online, but I'm intrigued; are the promoters actually claiming to represent a genuinely ancient Peruvian martial art, as in, something that has literally passed down since time immemorial, or are they saying "this is a modern reconstruction including some elements of ancient (folk) Peruvian fighting styles"?

    The specific nature of the claims made (by the promoters themselves, not by publicists on their behalf) would be the key to establishing the BS factor, at least as far as the history goes.
  10. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 9:46am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    I can't seem to find much about Rumi Maki online, but I'm intrigued; are the promoters actually claiming to represent a genuinely ancient Peruvian martial art, as in, something that has literally passed down since time immemorial, or are they saying "this is a modern reconstruction including some elements of ancient (folk) Peruvian fighting styles"?

    The specific nature of the claims made (by the promoters themselves, not by publicists on their behalf) would be the key to establishing the BS factor, at least as far as the history goes.
    They have set up their claims in such a way to imply the former. Notice the abundance of weasel words used to manipulate the audience without having to actually back up with references or evidence:

    http://www.geocities.com/rumimakisol/about.html

    Peru is a country that is extremely rich and diverse in culture. Various examples of indigenous martial culture are alive and well to this day in Peru. According to tradition, Rumi Maki is the combination of various fighting systems of the multiple cultures that populated Peru before the Inca era. Each Pre-inca culture contributed something to this fighting art, such as the Chavin, Mochica-Chimu, Tiahuanaco, etc. The name Rumi Maki comes from the Runa Simi (quechua language as it is known to the rest of the world) and means "Hand of Stone".

    Not only do they claim a Incan lineage, but a pre-Incan one. That's both convinient since you can't trace it, and more mystic and fascinating.

    There aren't many left who still preserve indigenous Peruvian martial culture however some of its combative manifestations can be seen in the diverse combative festivities of the Andean people such as the "Luchas de Tocto" in Chumbivilcas, the "Chiariaje" in Cuzco, the "Lucheo" in Ayacucho, or the "Tinkuy" in Bolivia.

    It claims that there aren't many left, which implies there are some, even a few. Why is it that there are no mention of them? Why isn't there a mention to these maestros?

    Also, notice how the autors surreptitiously create a connection between these ancient combative arts to the ritual fighting of the Peruvian highlinders. Although it could be possible, it's ridiculous to think that such ritual fighting may just be a folk expression with no relation to any form of established martial arts, or it may be a product from the colonial era.

    When aspects of martial culture are propagated by an individual this constitutes a martial system or art

    This is the quicker. They are establishing their legitimacy as a MA simply because they propagate it. Which is simply not true.

    Even if they were propagating an effective system, their historical claims are bogus. There is no other way to put it. They are feeding bullshit to the online masses. Plain and simple.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
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