233492 Bullies, 3740 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 51 to 60 of 152
Page 6 of 16 FirstFirst ... 23456 78910 ... LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. TigerFly is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    314

    Posted On:
    10/26/2003 7:33pm


     Style: Big Cans O' Whoopass!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When someone promotes one type of training over another type they need to divorce steroids from the equation. When you take steroids, it isn't the type of training you are doing that is getting you those results. It's the drugs. You could take steroids and roll balls of cheese around all day and gain mass. Your muscles didn't come from wisdom, they came from a needle.
    Actually you couldn't be MORE wrong. when on a cycle of steroids you STILL have to work Just as hard if not HARDER or you are wasting your money. Muscles don't Magically appear with steroids. It still takes MEGA hard work and dedication! You are totally misinformed.
  2. Nid is offline

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,530

    Posted On:
    10/26/2003 8:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The very idea that the number of reps/sets you do doesnt affect your gains is totally ridiculous.
    Then perhaps you could field a question for me. What does a rep do?

    I always thought of the Olympics as more of a holy and pure event than professional sports. Little did I know that it is drug infested.
    Even the sainted Carl Lewis had a smidge of ephedra during his last olympic appearence. What's more, there's only about 50 substances which are *both* banned and testable. There's quite a few more than 50 useful substances. If a pro athlete says "I've never failed a drug test", you know what that means.
    Last edited by Nid; 10/26/2003 8:30pm at .
  3. TigerFly is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    314

    Posted On:
    10/26/2003 8:33pm


     Style: Big Cans O' Whoopass!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A FRM repetition contracts and releases all parts of the muscle group being worked. The speed of the movement determines whether or not slow twitch or fast twitch muscle fibers are recruited. The faster the contraction the more fast twitch fibers are recruited. Fast twitch fibers being pivotal to a Martial Artist. This is exactly why your "hanging on a bar" idea doesn't WORK at all. It will NOT work your fast twitch muscle fibers therefore it WILL NOT produce the SAME gains as reps/sets.
  4. Nid is offline

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,530

    Posted On:
    10/26/2003 8:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah, so you want to talk muscle fiber types. If you believe weight training focuses on Type II fibers, that is incorrect. Size Principle of Recruitment, a well-established physiological rule, states that the Type I are recruited first, then Type II (that's a tad simplified but still true). The Type II fibers will fatigue first (B, then AB, then A). Is it rare that Type I fibers fatigue in weight training? Yes. It's rare that they fatigue EVER. Type I fibers do not have nearly the growth potential, REGARDLESS of the activity.

    This is exactly why your "hanging on a bar" idea doesn't WORK at all.
    Not mechanically, no. That's precisely what I was attempting to illustrate. Zero mechanical work...yet...

    But anyway...regardless of the intended fiber recruitment, what does each successive rep do to them (besides recruit)?
    Last edited by Nid; 10/26/2003 9:10pm at .
  5. Djimbe is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    2,058

    Posted On:
    10/26/2003 9:25pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It is generally accepted throughout the world that there are two different types of muscle fibers. Slow twitch (Type I) muscle and fast twitch (Type II) muscle fiber. From there, you can further categorize fast twitch muscle fiber into Type IIa and Type IIb.

    Type I Muscle Fibers

    Type I muscle fibers have the slowest-contractile speed, the smallest cross-sectional area, the highest oxidative (aerobic) capacity, and the lowest glycolytic (anaerobic) capacity. They contract slowly and are able to hold a steady paced twitch for long durations without fatigue. Type I muscle fibers are predominately used in endurance activities. Long distance runners, swimmers, and cyclists mostly use Type I fibers.

    Type II Muscle Fibers

    Type IIb muscle fibers have the fastest-contractile speed, the largest cross-sectional area, the lowest oxidative capacity, and the highest glycolytic capacity. They are ideally suited for short fast bursts of power. These muscle fibers are used in such activities as sprinting, powerlifting, and bodybuilding. Type IIa muscle fibers are intermediate and their properties lie between type I and type IIb.

    How Type I & Type II Muscle Fibers Are Different

    Type I fibers are different than type IIb fibers for many reasons. You can think of them as opposites. Type I is for long endurance activities while type IIb is for short fast bursts. Type I fibers are highly oxidative and are not likely to hypertrophy as much. Type IIb fibers are highly gycolytic and tend to hypertrophy more than type I fibers. Type I fibers are also known as red fibers due to their abundant supply of blood. Type IIb fibers have little blood causing them to be white in appearance.

    How Your Body Recruits Muscle Fibers

    Even the small muscle groups in your body have over 100,000 muscle fibers. A motor neuron is what stimulates our muscles to contract. It carries impulses (messages) from our brain and spinal cord to our muscles. One motor neuron controls anywhere from 2-2,000 muscle fibers. A single motor neuron and the fibers it stimulates are called a motor unit. Each motor unit mainly contains muscles of its kind. Also, the motor unit fires with a frequency that is conducive to the fibers it stimulates. Simply put, a slow twitch motor neuron will cause the muscles in it to contract slowly while a fast twitch unit will fire quickly.

    The quicker it fires the more power it produces. If the activity is light, it will mainly stimulate type I muscle fibers. When it becomes too intense it will call upon type IIa muscle fibers. And finally, for the highest intensity movements, it will recruit the type IIb fibers. This is why type I fibers are called low threshold, and fast type IIb fibers are called high threshold. Low threshold because they are the first muscle fibers to be recruited and high threshold because they are only recruited under the most intense circumstances. Your body always activates its muscle fibers in this fashion.

    An Example Of How Your Muscle Fibers Are Recruited

    Say you were to help someone lift a heavy couch up a flight of ten stairs. You would use your hands as grips and let your legs do all the work. On the first step your legs will start to recruit type IIa fibers. By the 2nd or 3rd step your nervous system does not recruit more motor units. This being the case the first set of fibers rest and more type IIa fibers are recruited. Along with these, a number of type IIb fibers are called into play (to maintain fluent motion up the stairs).

    As your journey continues more type IIa and type IIb fibers are recruited until by the last step they have all come into play. Your muscle fibers weren't twitching at maximum speed until the end of the stairs when they neared failure. The faster a muscle fiber twitches the greater the force is. At the beginning, the fibers weren't forced to twitch at maximum frequency to overcome the weight, but at the end they had to produce as much force as possible to overcome the weight. This is how recruitment is designed to maintain a certain amount of force.

    Recruitment In Low Rep Sets

    Low repetition work (in the 1-5 rep range) provides an extremely unique adaptation. To overcome the weight, your body must recruit as many motor units as humanly possible. This will cause your nervous system to become more efficient at this process. Over time, you will learn to lift the heavier weight with all (or close to as possible) of your motor units in one rep. Powerlifters are brutally strong for this reason. They can basically make all the their motor units fire at once.

    Strength Gains Without Muscular Hypertrophy?

    Strength gains in the 1-5 rep range can take place without muscular hypertrophy. This doesn't mean that growth cannot occur at these junctions. It just means that growth is not the optimal method of adaptation in this zone. This is for two reasons. First, although more motor units are recruited at once, low repetition sets cannot recruit as many muscle fibers as in a higher repetition set.

    This is due to signaling problems occurring in the nervous system. These problems occur because the nervous system is asked to act extremely fast and furious and is taxed to its limit. Second, contractile proteins in a cell are responsible for muscular growth. These must be exposed to enough stress (which they aren't in low repetition sets) or they will not be damaged enough to overcompensate and increase in size.

    How Does A Certain Rep Range Affect Your Muscle Fibers & Strength Gains?

    Overview Growth In Muscle Fibers Below :

    Repetition Range : Type I/Type IIA/Type IIA/Strength Gains
    1-2 repetitions : Very Low/Low/Low/Excellent
    3-5 repetitions : Very/Low/Low/Decent to Good/Excellent
    6-8 repetitions : Very Low Good Excellent/Good
    9-12 repetitions : Low/Excellent/Very Good/Good Within Rep R.
    13-15 repetitions : Decent/Very Good/Decent to Good/Endurance
    16-25 repetitions : Very Good/Diminishing/Low/Endurance
    25-50 repetitions : Excellent/Low/Very Low/Endurance


    How To Apply This Knowledge To Bodybuilding

    From this article, you learned that in general the higher the amount of reps, the more slow twitch fibers you work and the lower the amount of reps, the more fast twitch fibers you work. You also learned that sets in the 1-5 rep range don't recruit as many fast twitch fibers as sets in the 6-12 rep range although they do recruit a higher percentage of fast twitch fibers compared to slow twitch. Low rep sets can be used to your advantage to bust through a plateau or gain strength while maintaining the same size.

    References

    Sports Medicine with Elizabeth Quinn
    Skeletal Muscle Function and Metabolism
    SJ Valberg DVM, PhD, and JM MacLeay, DVM, Department of Clinical and Population Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Minnesota, St Paul, Minnesota
    Muscle Fibers - An In Depth Analysis Part 2 by Jacob Wilson




    http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/shane6.htm
  6. 9chambers

    Guest

    Posted On:
    10/27/2003 2:17am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tiger,

    I guess I should have pointed out the sarcasm for the slow readers. I didn't literally mean that one could roll around actual balls of cheese and gain mass from steroids. I just meant that it isn't some leap in training wisdom that makes these guys stronger. Like you said, they do the same work as anyone else.

    Why look at them as examples of good trainers then? They didn't get better results due to better training. Without the drugs their results would have been the same as everyone else's. They didn't work harder. They just used drugs.
  7. Djimbe is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    2,058

    Posted On:
    10/27/2003 3:52am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    9C :

    Mostly because to be at the Top Level you have to have Juice AND Train Perfectly . Its a REALLY Narrow Field that hits the OPlympia Stage each year compared to all the Steroids that get used each year .

    Its not one or the Other , its both .

    The guys/girls that make the O are just the best Trainers of the Steroid Set .
  8. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    20,894

    Posted On:
    10/27/2003 7:40am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You guys are execellent.
    It's great to see the thrist for knowledge.
    I hope that this thread has helped someone to train better, to look at things from a new perspective.
    You guys have, as always, execeeded my expectations.
    I bow to you :D
  9. Nid is offline

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,530

    Posted On:
    10/27/2003 1:13pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Djimbe,

    You're article is ...actually kind of sound. It's your implied interpretation I have the problem with.

    Long distance runners, swimmers, and cyclists mostly use Type I fibers.
    Good example of what I'm talking about. It's not just them who use those fibers during such activities, it's everyone. But what's MORE important is that they already HAVE more (provided they excel particularly well at what they do compared to the mean population).

    The quicker it fires the more power it produces.
    It's also hard to take it seriously when one uses terms of physics incorrectly. Muscles don't produce power. It's an altogether moot point to even mention watts, or horsepower when speaking of internal conditions. Yes, from a body's end-point to the physical mass which it MIGHT move; that can be measured in such terms, but not the process which initiates it. Muscle contraction is a bio-chemical process which doesn't have to neccesarily result in ANY external movement.

    An Example Of How Your Muscle Fibers Are Recruited
    Yet, this isn't a bad example of how it happens. This goes with the grain of what I just said. You, however, think it's desirable to consciously by-pass those fibers which you feel don't need to be trained for general application.

    Low repetition work (in the 1-5 rep range) provides an extremely unique adaptation. To overcome the weight, your body must recruit as many motor units as humanly possible. This will cause your nervous system to become more efficient at this process. Over time, you will learn to lift the heavier weight with all (or close to as possible) of your motor units in one rep. Powerlifters are brutally strong for this reason. They can basically make all the their motor units fire at once.
    No disagreement here. It says powerlifters are brutally strong for this reason. What they fail to add is that they are brutally strong, and honed to a razor's edge for those 3 specific lifts. I, for one, can't think of any sport (other than powerlifting itself) which is "maked or breaked" by being able to undertake a perfected high-bar squat. However, it would behoove them to have more metabolic ability (which CAN translate into greater force and mechanical work) which applies to EVERY movement even if it means not having a razor sharp 1RM squat. See the difference? The increased neurologic efficiency is VERY TASK SPECIFIC. Who CARES about squatting skill in a sport?

    Strength gains in the 1-5 rep range can take place without muscular hypertrophy. This doesn't mean that growth cannot occur at these junctions. It just means that growth is not the optimal method of adaptation in this zone. This is for two reasons. First, although more motor units are recruited at once, low repetition sets cannot recruit as many muscle fibers as in a higher repetition set.
    Yet, in a higher rep (TUL!) set, the coveted fibers are STILL recruited and fatigued. Go ahead and recruit all those muscle fibers at once for the squat...I hope you're called upon to squat an opponent.
  10. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    20,894

    Posted On:
    10/27/2003 1:22pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Your body calls in as much as is need to do the task no more.
    If you are squatting 300lbs, your body will produce enough strength to lift is, 301lbs for example.
    That is why you can squat 300lbs 10 times but not 3000lbs once, even though 300 x 10 = 3000.
    Your body only does as much as needed, no more.
Page 6 of 16 FirstFirst ... 23456 78910 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.