Advanced Fighting Systems
This is Kurtis Banish again (from Advanced Fighting Systems). I just wanted to expand on what is shown on the review since their is limited room on the synopsis. I have posted a school demo here as well as some clips from videos produced by Century Martial Arts which feature Dave Durch.
All students involved in these vids are beginers for this reason.......JKD is not for everyone! Most students in AFS drop out because they only want to take their training to a certain point. We are a branch of PFS so our training is PROGRESSIVE. Your training will progress, and as it does you will get kicked in the nuts, hit with sticks, ball bats, and crow bars. You will problably get choked out before you have the chance to tap. You WILL GET INJURED! If you want to train as a long term student it will be frusterating and painfull. However, if you stick with it you will grow substantially; and the rewards are far greater than the sacrifice.
Here is a demo from the school..........
YouTube - Advanced Fighting Systems Demo
And here is the clips from the instructional videos Dave did for Century Martial Arts............
YouTube - Dave Durch "Wing Chun for MMA"
Last edited by Banisher; 11/11/2008 12:39pm at .
I think it looks fairly lame with training methods ranging from useless to decent , but that is based only on the info you have provided .
It says you offer MMA training .
Do you have any active fighters ?
Originally Posted by ghost55
“I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
Wow this school looks awesomely terrible. Did I seriously just see a clip of two guys sparring with baseball bats? So your students will be hit with crow bars you say... sounds very... applicable.
The training methods shown are the same ones used by Paul Vunak (Danny Inosanto's student) and Danny Inosanto (Bruce Lee's student). Dave (the head instructor) is a student of both. They are the guys in the pictures.
Unfortunately, as I said in the review, all the students involved in the vids are beginners. All have less than 1 yr training. I was unable to be involved because I was incarcerated at the time. I say this because when you use more advanced students for a demo you can show training exercises that are at a higher end of the progression. He doesn't have many advanced students because as I said, no one will stick it out through the tough stuff. No one wants to expose their weaknesses. That's the whole purpose behind JKD though, as Bruce put it, "you must discover the cause of your own ignorance."
In all actuality MMA started with JKD! Bruce was telling people to spar and train like MMA fighters are since the 70's! The martial arts world is just now beginning to catch up to his revelation. We do not specialize in MMA (the sport), however that training is available, and it is definitely different than the stuff shown. It is less progressive and more straight to the "let's beat on each other" mentality.
He has just started training guys in MMA, only because no one has approached him to learn it, or train it because he is known for street fighting. He was part of the Ultimate Fighting Alliance back when the Gracie's owned it. He has always offered it but no one really sticks it out. Everyone wants to be the next "Ultimate Fighter" but never wants to put in the work.
I am now actively TRAINING to fight, but I haven't fought MMA yet. Their are 3 other guys TRAINING to fight in the cage. The full contact fight club thing is new to us, so we have no active fighters as of yet. Sorry, I know you would like to see some of our fights, but they are not yet available. We don't want to just put guys in the cage for the sake of watching them get beat up, although that would be fun!
The street and the cage are 2 different worlds so we have to train differently according to what you want to do as a martial artist. "How you train is how you respond", know what I mean? Sorry you don't agree with the training. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, if you think Vunak and Inosanto's stuff sucks you are free to think that.
What kind of training methods do you consider useful? I am definitely open minded and would like to hear your opinion.
MMA does not start with JKD. JKD'ers started training for MMA very early, and balked at the chance to apply their training when the UFC came around. Vunak declined a personal invite from Davie. His second generation student, David Hood, did at least enter UFC 7, but lost badly. I can tell you that David was about as good a fighter as the Vunak line of JKD ever produced. He was tough as nails and trained like a madman (I know, I watched him). In the end, he won one MMA(NHB) match out of four, and then only because he had a year under Rickson at the time.
For all it's progressive methods, JKD got out in front early but failed to deliver on its promises when the venue finally arrived.
Other fights worth watching again:
David Hood (JKD) v. Scott Bessac - UFC 7
Todd Medina (JKD) v. Dave Beneteau - UFC 5
Erik Paulson (JKD) v. James Warring - WCC 1
Of course there were a few victories for the JKD crowd, all due to their early adoption of BJJ, but all the work of the 60s,70s,80s and beginning of the 90s was basically for naught. Oh, and Chuck Norris's people adopted BJJ before JKD did.
I've never heard of Inosanto or Vunak sparring with baseball bats or hitting their students with crowbars. If this is the case, then yes I do think their stuff is stupid.
It is a well known fact that most violent attacks involve multiple attackers and/or weopens. Since this is mainly a RBSD school why shouldn't we train accordingly? You have to prepare yourself for encountering things like that through sparring. When you spar you get hit, so sparring with these tools means you will get clocked from time to time despite our efforts to provide a safe training environment. As Bruce said, "their is no such thing as dry land swimming." If you want to learn to swim you have to get in the water! PERIOD! I don't think you can claim to be an RBSD school otherwise.
We don't just arbitrarily beat students with crow bars, so forgive me if that's the impression I gave. If it was I'll edit my review.
We don't just arbitrarily beat student
No one "mixed martial arts" before Bruce Lee. Watch UFC 1! No one "mixed martial arts" then either. It was a fighting event placing style against style. Guys realized that they better know how to fight in all 4 ranges to survive and excell in the sport. They needed to learn how to fight on the ground as well as on their feet.
That is when guys started training in MMA which Bruce was saying to do since the 70's. You are right that Chuck incorporated BJJ before JKD. However, Bruce absorbed stuff from Gene Lebelle, Japanese Jujitsu (which is where Jujutsu originated) and wrestling. We were researching the ground game in general way before BJJ even existed.
JKD guys were very excited about NHB when it first started. Their were litterally NO RULES or weight classes. We were going to be able to fight accordind to how we fight. Eye gouging, head butting, kneeing and kicking to the groin, biting. Then the athletic commision stepped in and wouldn't sanction the events unless rules were enforced making the sport safe. NO HOLDS BARRED is really MANY HOLDS BARRED, don't be decieved.
Let me give you another example. I was training with one of my BJJ buddies (he was a purple belt at the time) and he got me into an arm bar. Theoretically since he had me in an armbar I should have not been able to do much. However, he didn't have me locked good enough. He thought I was about to tap but I reached in my jacket and grabbed my (unloaded) 32 cal Deringer and jammed it in his groin to prove a point. The fight would have continued in the cage. In the street I would have won.
One more example. I got into a fight with 2 guys at a gas station because they robbed my buddy. I kicked the little guy like a horse thinking that would put him out. Then I mounted the big'en to get my pound on. The gravel under my knees made it very hard to truely put all my weight on him and mount properly. He started buckin like a bull so my focus was on keeping him down to pound him. His little buddy got up and hit me from behind with the corner of a milk crate. That is "AS REAL AS IT GETS"
Most JKD guys train for the street, they don't compete. I am a little more open minded and am currently training MMA for some local events. However, I will have to fight according to rules and therefore limit myself, but I understand that. I have also posted an invite to have a throwdown at the studio. I have no problem taking a beating for the sake of learning. I like MMA and alot of JKD guys don't do well in it, by I also understand why.
Originally Posted by Banisher
Baseball bat duelling has no relevance to real world attacks unless you maybe play on a baseball team and wind up fighting other players who also have baseball bats.
Training the use and defense of weapons is not necessarily a bad thing but having two people have a baseball bat sparring duel is a little silly.
We don't just arbitrarily beat students with crow bars, so forgive me if that's the impression I gave.
I don't see any need at all to swing crowbars at eachother. The motions required to dodge a crowbar are the same as the ones required to dodge a rattan stick. They both hurt and encourage you to move but one of them isn't going to cause serious injury if you're actually swinging with intent.
Intent by the way being the singular most important thing you can bring to your training. Much more important then actually trying to hit each other lightly with real world implements such as an actual crowbar.
Don't fool yourself.
Originally Posted by Banisher
This is one of the biggest fallacies out there in the Martial arts world. Please do some research.
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