Bill Duff comments on Human Weapon BS.

**Matt W.** · Posted On: 11/04/2007 11:07am

Originally Posted by Cracky

That's not humour, he's shamelessly allowing **** heads to promote themselves through him.

No, that's too strong of a denouncement. Every show ends in a real fight where people can see what works and what doesn't. True, they don't verbally debunk the bs or challenge the bs-ers to their face, but we can all see the results.

That's too bad about the link. Any blue namers out there wanna lend a hand?

Originally Posted by DDlr

IMO if more martial artists (and fighters) had the experience of traveling and training in a wide range of styles in their original cultural contexts, the MA world would be a much better place.

I can't agree. BS is BS. And, if anything, the Asian MA world has already fallen victim to a "do not question the Master" mentality long ago. This has perpetuated a lack of practical fighting application in many styles, by allowing Masters to teach junk without being called on it.

I'm not opposed to Bill's approach, because you summed up what he is doing very well, and he is trying to make an entertaining and at least somewhat informational TELEVISION program. But as far as real people practicing real MA, we need LESS tolerance of the all the bogus crap, not more.

**rino86** · Posted On: 11/04/2007 1:10pm

I think the show does a decent job of showing real technique. I remember in the MT episode they learned that double uppercut from the mountain ninjas and the real coach laughed and said that move would get you KTFO in a real ring. Its better than some of the other crap they used to put on television about martial arts.

***JohnnyCache*** · Posted On: 11/04/2007 3:27pm

The other thing you have to remember about a general interest show like human weapon is the audience is not comprised solely of people that are martial arts skeptics - there are people that will stop flipping channels to watch a lion dance or guys playing with swords.

**RaizenX** · Posted On: 11/04/2007 3:54pm

Bill seems like a nice guy to hang out with. Well IMO he is trying to keep his job, If he just goes out saying that this MA sucks or move, it waste production and training time they have and devalues the show. It's like having a gun show and saying that almost all their gun suck and not really good for anything than to look tough or scary. Be honest who would watch a show about how bad everything is? The show would be canceled in like 3 episodes.

**fightin Penguin** · Posted On: 11/04/2007 4:34pm

Originally Posted by rino86

I think the show does a decent job of showing real technique. I remember in the MT episode they learned that double uppercut from the mountain ninjas and the real coach laughed and said that move would get you KTFO in a real ring. Its better than some of the other crap they used to put on television about martial arts.

Naw man, they learned the double uppercut from the priests, not the mountain ninjas in Myanmar.

**DdlR** · Posted On: 11/04/2007 4:58pm

Originally Posted by Matt W.

I can't agree. BS is BS. And, if anything, the Asian MA world has already fallen victim to a "do not question the Master" mentality long ago. This has perpetuated a lack of practical fighting application in many styles, by allowing Masters to teach junk without being called on it.

I'm not opposed to Bill's approach, because you summed up what he is doing very well, and he is trying to make an entertaining and at least somewhat informational TELEVISION program. But as far as real people practicing real MA, we need LESS tolerance of the all the bogus crap, not more.

Mr. Garrison: Look, this kind of behavior should not be acceptable from a teacher!
Mr. Slave: Yeah, Jesus Christ.
Man 6: But the mu-se-um tells us to be to-le-rant
Man 3: [stands up and raises his arms] Yes. The mu-se-um.
Man 7: [stands up and raises his arms] The mu-se-um tells us.
Mr. Garrison: Tolerant, but not stupid! Look, just because you have to tolerate something doesn't mean you have to approve of it! If you had to like it, it'd be called the Museum of Acceptance! "Tolerate" means you're just putting up with it! You tolerate a crying child sitting next to you on the airplane or, or you tolerate a bad cold. It can still piss you off! Jesus Tapdancing Christ!

By traveling and experiencing a wide range of styles and traditions first hand, you gain a sense of perspective re. your own biases. My base-line assumption might be, "it's crap if you can't pull it off in MMA combat", and then I wind up learning some classical tai chi in Macao, or whatever.

If I'm open-minded enough to accept that other people have different base-line assumptions about the ultimate value of a martial art then I come away with a wider perspective, which is the point Duff was making. I might discover that Master Wang knows damn well that whatever aspect of his tai chi doesn't work on the street and that he teaches it as a matter of respect for his teachers. OK, good to know. I might also learn that he has some solid training methods for adapting the classical form into something that works fine in real combat. Also good to know.

Without that travel and experience then I might end up vacillating between stupid acceptance and narrow-minded intolerance, the poles that characterize a lot of Internet discussion about martial arts.

***JohnnyCache*** · Posted On: 11/04/2007 5:18pm

There are things, also, I think are in martial arts because it was probably, along with maybe running and the normal efforts of life, people's only "physical training" at the time. There are some things in martial arts that are less then ring effective, but maybe they help train and stretch the entire body (for example super high kicks - if you train to kick over your head, you have more power at head level and below).

**partyboy** · Posted On: 11/04/2007 6:10pm

Originally Posted by DdlR

By traveling and experiencing a wide range of styles and traditions first hand, you gain a sense of perspective re. your own biases. My base-line assumption might be, "it's crap if you can't pull it off in MMA combat", and then I wind up learning some classical tai chi in Macao, or whatever.

If I'm open-minded enough to accept that other people have different base-line assumptions about the ultimate value of a martial art then I come away with a wider perspective, which is the point Duff was making. I might discover that Master Wang knows damn well that whatever aspect of his tai chi doesn't work on the street and that he teaches it as a matter of respect for his teachers. OK, good to know. I might also learn that he has some solid training methods for adapting the classical form into something that works fine in real combat. Also good to know.

Without that travel and experience then I might end up vacillating between stupid acceptance and narrow-minded intolerance, the poles that characterize a lot of Internet discussion about martial arts.

I don't see any problem in learning a wide aspect of whatever you like but the show should still make a better distinction between what will work in a fight and what will get your ass beat.

It could be as simple as Chambers saying, "Wow! that was an awesome technique they just showed me! But I don't know how well I could pull this off in the fight later on..."

If you think that equals wasted airtime then they should do some better research, use some common sense and only have Chambers and Duff learn useful techniques.

**DdlR** · Posted On: 11/04/2007 7:39pm

As I attempted to suggest earlier, one of the lessons to be drawn from the show is that "useful" is a relative concept. The hypothetical tai chi teacher might well value passing on his tradition intact as a way of honoring his own teachers, more than he values how well the art works in competition. I'm not saying that anyone else has to accept that attitude themselves, I'm saying that it's worthwhile understanding (and tolerating) his motivations.