Thread: Studying Judo in Japan
10/31/2007 4:24pm, #11
Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
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- May 2007
10/31/2007 6:22pm, #12
Originally Posted by FourT6and2
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
As for your complaints about not being able to do a lot of stuff, just think of this as a chance to work on your fundamental grappling technique.
10/31/2007 6:38pm, #13
I have a question:
When someone says randori, what is your first reaction?
Are you excited to test your skills? Compete?
11/01/2007 1:42am, #14
Originally Posted by Just Guess
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- May 2007
Last edited by FourT6and2; 11/01/2007 1:49am at .
11/01/2007 1:48am, #15
Originally Posted by Mas
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- May 2007
11/01/2007 12:22pm, #16
A few questions.
1. Where are you in Japan?
2. How do you justify using techniques that can possible harm your partner while training?
3. Do you speak Japanese?
That being said if you are at a recreational club, which is what it sounds like, they are not gearing up for war. They are doing Judo to stay fit. If you are interested in going beyond just rec training you need to go to a university club or police dojo.
Judo techniques and rules are there so you can keep coming back every day and train. Consider yourself lucky that you are at a rec club because you would have been thrown through the wall or off the mats by now if you keep that up trying self defense moves while in class. Randori is a great time to develop your skill sets in nage waza and ne waza and at the same time get in a great work out. Cranking on peoples heads, shoving your hands in their face and scratching at eye balls is just juvenile. I really don't care how effective they are because we all know if you poke someone in the eye they will react to it. Again the rules are there to make sure you don't get hurt along with you partner. Atemi waza is in the same category. Getting punched in your **** is not many peoples idea of a good time.
Another important note here. Judo has been around for awhile. Judo training and matches have been recorded and studied long before many other arts even came to fruition. The reason behind all of the "silly" rules in the dojo is because of injury potential. A technique being banned is not because it was ineffective or too effective. It was banned because even the proper application caused an injury too many time. Yes it allowed YOU to win the match but your uke was laid up for 6 months and not allowed to train. Which in turn hurt the school as a whole because YOU was without a good training partner.
I will also bet a dime to a dollar you was 100% resisting the throw which caused the shoulder injury.
More importantly here you have a chance to expand your MA training in a country with good dojos. If this club isn't "tough" enough for you head to the next train station and there will be 2 more.
I hate it when guys complain about the "silly" or illegal moves. They are here to protect you just like speed limits and stop lights.Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
11/01/2007 6:45pm, #17
Originally Posted by jkartigue
- Join Date
- May 2007
2. I do not claim to want to use techniques that can cause possible harm to my partner. I'm not saying I want to sit there and pound my partner in the face (when I said, in my first post, that I could have I didn't mean that I wanted to; just that the opportunity is there). And going further, every technique you do in Judo has the ability to cause possible harm. Case in point: My seperated AC Joint caused from a wrongly executed seoinage.
3. I am not fluent in Japanese, but I am still learning and improving my ability to communicate.
4. I am at a recreational facility. I have not been "trying self-defense moves while in class." When they say that something I am doing is illegal, it's mostly about hand placement and the type of choke or throw I am doing. For example, they'll say "Oh, you can't have your hand here or here and you can't do this chocke or this lock or this throw." I'm not trying to injure or hurt my partner. I'm not malicious or looking for a fight.
5. I have not shoved my hands in peoples faces. I have not cranked on peoples heads. I have not tried to scratch out peoples eyeballs. You are putting words in my mouth and setting up a false argument.
6. Yes, I was resisting the throw a little. I'm not going to sit there during randori and just fall down as soon as my partner touches me. But, I was giving an appropriate amount of resistance for the situation and rank of my partner. It was just a badly executed throw.
7. I'm not complaining that the dojo or the art isn't "tough enough." Again, I'm not looking for a fight or to be able to break someone's jaw or nose or "crank on their head...scratch out their eyes...or shove my hands in people's faces."
The other arts I study are done just as safe...if not safer...than what I've experienced so far, in Judo. And I'm not talking about some ground and pound system. Besides Aikido (which I stopped training in), one of them is a koryu jujutsu system and the other bears strong similarities and has many direct influences from Ryute. They are by no means arts where you're aim is to injure your training partner. But, they are not sports or games, either.
So, stop putting words in my mouth. I'm just sharing my experiences, thus far, with Judo. Maybe the art isn't for me. That's no sin. So get off your high horse.
Last edited by FourT6and2; 11/01/2007 6:59pm at .
11/02/2007 9:04am, #18Originally Posted by FourT6and2
11/02/2007 10:39am, #19
Originally Posted by BomberH
- Join Date
- May 2007
Or, that I'm simply curious as to the nature of the rules and you are overreacting because your intolerant of another person's (dissenting) opinion?
Again, you're just putting words into my mouth.
What do finger locks have to do with anything?
Rules have nothing to do with how I got injured. My partner lost his balance and fell down while trying to throw me, simple as that. Sensei saw the whole thing happen and had no issue with how I behave during practice. My partner apologized and life moves on.
If I'm being the big, bad, ego-tripping American like you say and complaining about the rules or going to practice trying to prove something, the other people in the dojo would be the first one's to bring it up; not some punk on the internet.
Get over yourself. It seems like you're the one who is trying to prove something, here; not me.
You immediately jumped the gun in this thread and your first post was just a bunch of name calling and cussing at me. All I was doing was asking for any suggestions and some insights into the nature of Judo. For someone who claims to have 20+ years experience and who claims to have trained for a good period of time at the Kodokan, it sure as hell seems like you are pretty damn insecure about what other people think of Judo. Why is that?
Yeah, I study a Koryu. So what? That doesn't mean that I think the art is any better or more effective than Judo. They are completely different in their nature and their goals. I was simply giving some information as to my background because someone else asked.
But, I know the outcome of this conversation. You are going to continue to insult me and insinuate all sorts of things about my motives and you're going to tell me to "go **** myself" (oh, whoops you already did that).
I guess you're right! I'm just a Bullshit Artist (3rd dan) trying to prove to the local, Japanese fishermen who also like to study Judo in their free time, that the koryu are sooo much better.
Maybe I'll teach them another lesson and prove to them that using forks is all the rage, too!
But, you know what? There's no point in bickering about this anymore. Argueing is useless. You're 100% right. I really AM a bullshit artist who is just trying to convince himself of his false sense of superiority. Thank you very much for enlightening me.
I'll go find a ninja forum now. Anybody know where I can buy some shuriken?
Last edited by FourT6and2; 11/02/2007 11:10am at .
11/02/2007 11:54am, #20
Muscle grabs and pressure point style moves are the things that you described which we relate to self defense. "Illegal" moves or holds that you vaguely talk about again fall into what I say is self defense style moves. When they tell you to not place your hand directly on the wind pipe its for a reason. That reason again is SAFETY. While we all respect and understand the validity of them we don't have to use them to train.
Because of the vagueness of you descriptions is what led me to believe in what I said. If you would have asked "Why can't I grab and hold the belt?" Then I could have given you a better answer. The answer is that holding the belt is a defensive act. This slows down the action and is usually used to keep you from getting thrown. Its not illegal its just the sign of a desperate man. In competition your allowed 3-5 secs for any grip that is not standard kumikata. If you do not throw in that time you will be given a penalty. Hence the term illegal. If you grab it then execute a throw you are fine. But since you are new to Judo they want you to learn the basics and proper Judo.
Again you are in another country with different customs and levels of acceptance. Your are new to a sport with different rules. If someone new came to your job and was doing stuff wrong you would correct them and show them the proper way to do it. This is what they are doing. If you agree with it or not it doesn't matter. You are in their house you do it their way. The Japanese are a quirky people get use to it.
Don't give tell us that other jujutsu practice everything at full speed because that is highly unlikely. Since 98% of Judo techniques are done at full speed and the reason they can be done that way is because when you learn how to properly fall and tap the chance of injury is very low.
Now you come on here and complain about a sport that many of us enjoy and train with on a daily basis. Some of us have trained for years and in Japan. We have seen guys like you all the time. You are the question guy. "Why can't I do this? Why do I have to do it like that? What if I do this?"
When told not to do it that way because of A, B, and C the first word out of ya'll mouths are "but". There is no buts be lucky someone took the time to say A B & C ad not to STFU and do it like I said. Sometimes its best to yield to people with more experience. Its not that your wrong and we are right its just that we have seen all the other ways too. The way we teach is the best way to learn it.
When you get higher up in level and skill then you can start to break the rules. First though learn the rules.Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.