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  1. Aaron Fields is offline
    Aaron Fields's Avatar

    One of Seattle's Bravest

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    Jul 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    303

    Posted On:
    11/08/2007 12:07am


     Style: Cambo/jujutsu/judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It seems everything has been cleared up as to what I do or in this case, don't do.

    I do not practice "kosen" judo, as Kosen is simply a rule-set and and the specialization that comes from those rules. In addition, it is not found outside of Japan, therefore it is not in Seattle, nor are there many more than a few active "Kosen" rule clubs that have any connection to the original group. We had a Japanese Kosen player in our club on and off for a year, while he was studying at the U of W and I have had some personal contact with one of the guys that runs one of the remaining Kosen clubs. That is about it though.

    To be clear, I have nidan in jujutsu, a yondan in judo (a yondan or a nidan depending upon the country.) I practice Sombo, which I started while living in Mongolia,(in addition to Mongolian folk wrestling.) While living there I practiced with their national judo and sombo teams frequently.

    I practice a balanced grappling game, that is developed in both standing and ground.
    I think the folks that have taken the time to stop in and practice with us will speak to our ne-waza and tachi-waza skills. SOme of our guys are regulars on this board as well.

    I practice the way I was taught, a balanced game. I don't personally care for the Olympic rule-set as I think it is crippling judo, for the very reasons stated here.

    I have practiced with BJJ guys on and off for the last 16 or so years and have found that their guard, dojime, was very developed. But, I have found skills that I have borrowed from everything I have practiced. (In truth my whole approach to grappling often gets classified as "Russian" which stems from my time practicing in the former Eastern BLock.) The truth is that all the sports are more similar than different. Though generalities can be made, these are developemnts and specialities are based off respective rule-sets.

    I myself look for those things that I can beg, borrow, or steal, and make my own game stronger. I could care less regarding what it is called. Of course I have no dog in the "style" argument. I have been on the mat for closing on twenty years and have found outstanding players from all over.

    As was stated in an earlier post, the trouble folks have with us is we don't fit any one mold. We are often called "judo" because it is simple and the layman usually understands what that means. Yet we are by no means, main-stream judo.

    I think Kano's vision was a strong one, take what works and chuck the rest. If Kano saw what main-stream judo had become I think it would make him wince.

    Finally, if I can answer any direct questions feel free to contact me or stop into the club.

    Sweat more and talk less, best regards,

    Aaron Fields


    PS Hey there Tom how goes it?

    And get a job Andre....I look foward to seeing you in a month. Get your neck guard on chokes galor!
  2. Rajah is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    25

    Posted On:
    12/10/2007 11:59am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Hapkido,Judo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GrandMaster00
    The Enshin instructor I planned to train under is the only one in the Austin area that teaches Enshin and yes he is a 3rd degree black belt in Judo. The whole point of wanting to take Kosen Judo is to learn BJJ and Judo simultaneously instead of having to take them seperately and it taking that much longer to to have effective newaza with my Judo.

    Yes, I did know Andrew Budd is 3rd dan in Judo, I stated that in another thread, you are making assumptions about me. No, I am not taking classes currently, which is why I am trying to organize this now, so I can save years learning all the techniques I feel I need to know.

    IMO, Judo needs to take a hard look at the dominating success of BJJ in MMA competitions and venerate less the traditions of the Kodokan and innovate more by incoporating these newaza strategies into Judo. I think most anyone that really is serious about having a ground game will agree.
    In MMA your saying they use alot of BJJ!?The only BJJ looking things they do is the takedown and the escapes and the kimura...THATS IT!And you haven't even started takeing Judo yet so don't diss a Judokans newaza game we do have a ASS LOAD of techniques for ne waza.And tyhe only really dominating things I can see in BJJ over Judo is there flying arm bar and flyingle triangle choke.
  3. D Dempsey is offline
    D Dempsey's Avatar

    Monkey Knife Fight!

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dayton, Ohio
    Posts
    725

    Posted On:
    12/10/2007 2:07pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah
    In MMA your saying they use alot of BJJ!?The only BJJ looking things they do is the takedown and the escapes and the kimura...THATS IT!And you haven't even started takeing Judo yet so don't diss a Judokans newaza game we do have a ASS LOAD of techniques for ne waza.And tyhe only really dominating things I can see in BJJ over Judo is there flying arm bar and flyingle triangle choke.
    You can do flying arm-bars and flying triangle chokes in Judo competitions. You just can't finish the submission until you land on the mat.
  4. Tomas Drgon is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    n/a
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    629

    Posted On:
    12/10/2007 5:35pm


     Style: n/a

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Anger Claus
    You can do flying arm-bars and flying triangle chokes in Judo competitions. You just can't finish the submission until you land on the mat.
    Clarification (confusion):

    There is a rule in judo that one needs to perform (or attempt to perform) a tachiwaza technique before one can get into newaza.

    Flying armbar is somehow considered an exception. You can do flying armbar and finish the technique in the air (I did on many occasions). This is a grey area in Judo rules. Sankaku jime (triangle choke) is considered a ground technique so you need to perform a throw before you attempt it.

    And to anyone that wants to learn Kosen Judo: Kosen Judo is A RULE SET NOT A SYSTEM...
    Just play Judo under Kosen rules and voila, you are doing Kosen Judo...

    Tomas
  5. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    3,008

    Posted On:
    12/10/2007 5:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tomas, isn't it true that the Gracies killed the last Kosen masters so that they would have the only grappling style?
  6. Mdrnsamurai is offline

    Registered Member

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    Dec 2006
    Location
    New York, New York
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    212

    Posted On:
    12/22/2007 7:43pm


     Style: Judo, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Kosen Judo

    I am sure that there are many that would believe somewhere there is a Kosen Judo school in the U.S. However, since there are so few that would admit that they are Kosen Practitioners it is difficult to say. I know of one living Kosen Practitioner Okada Toshikazu, who trained under Sensei Oda Join (Tsunetane) but won't admit it, that he is a Kosen Judoka that is. Some of the last Kosen Practitioners past in the late 90's and I am sure that they still had students that trained under them. As far as how many have made it to the States is beyond me.

    I believe that BJJ has the closest link to Kosen Judo except for the fact that Kosen Practitioners used more Judo Techniques as their take downs.

    Train Hard, Stay Safe,
    Good Luck

    The Long Island Training Triad.
    Combat Judo
    Scarola BJJ
    Red Boy BJJ
  7. ozarkjudo is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15

    Posted On:
    1/03/2008 1:18am


     Style: kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kosen translated is schoolboy , it was judo for children. It was safer for kids to start on there knees with the tatami of 1905. Also the Kodakon has nothing to do with curent or olympic style Judo , all rules are from the IJF.
  8. Fitz is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    875

    Posted On:
    1/03/2008 1:10pm


     Style: Judo, Tomiki Aikido, ??

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are aware that the "schoolboys" you're talking about were mainly

    UNIVERSITY STUDENTS

    and not kids right?
  9. Mdrnsamurai is offline

    Registered Member

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    Dec 2006
    Location
    New York, New York
    Posts
    212

    Posted On:
    1/03/2008 6:03pm


     Style: Judo, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Translated by who? The characters for Kosen translates closer to Speciality or Special, and Kosen practitioners were hardly "schoolboys". Kosen Judoka were known to be so tough that in tournaments they would refuse to TapouT and rather choose to have their arms broken or be choked unconscious.

    Kimura was a Kosen Practitioner if that gives you any idea of how strong they were.

    Train Hard, Stay Safe,
    Good Luck

    Combat judo Academy
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