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  1. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2007 10:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GrandMaster00
    I didn't compare Kosen to BJJ, I simply stated Judo needs to add more newaza to compete with BJJ on the ground.

    Yes, you may study newaza, but if a BJJ black belt showed up, would you get owned because you practice the same old limited newaza and his newaza is far more diverse? I think so.
    You haven't even started a martial art yet according to your profile...except add an additional "BJJ" to your style field since this thread began. Don't try to tell the entire Judo world your opinion about how it should conduct it's affairs. You've done nothing. It makes you look like an asshat.
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 10/27/2007 10:05pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  2. RaiNnyX4 is offline

    Registered Member

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    Mar 2006
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    Sapporo
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2007 10:05pm


     Style: Aikido/Judo/BJJ/Naginata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GrandMaster00
    I didn't compare Kosen to BJJ, I simply stated Judo needs to add more newaza to compete with BJJ on the ground.

    "The problem isn't with judo...my school does alot of newaza. And on wednesday night, you show up and do newaza open rounds until you can't take it anymore. So, it is not judo, it is the school. We have young and old blackbelts and they all do newaza. Judo clubs from all around come to our newaza nights."

    Yes, you may study newaza, but if a BJJ black belt showed up, would you get owned because you practice the same old limited newaza and his newaza is far more diverse? I think so.
    Assumptions.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm3kJXZ9SIQ

    Judo and BJJ use their groundwork under different rules (BJJ being much more open). So naturally a BJJ guy is going to play much differently. If you're looking for better groundwork just go to a BJJ school. Since they essentially allow everything, and Judo doesn't, in terms of ground work you're just going to get more.

    Also, like others have said, your chances of finding a Kosen Judo school in the states is like one in a kabillion.
  3. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2007 10:31pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RaiNnyX4
    Also, like others have said, your chances of finding a Kosen Judo school in the states is like one in a kabillion.
    No, it's zero.

    Kosen isn't a seperate style, it's Kodokan Judo played with less restrictions on newaza. And it's only played at a specific set of Kosen universities in Japan. Like Macho said, looking for it outside of Japan is just fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrandMaster00
    I didn't compare Kosen to BJJ, I simply stated Judo needs to add more newaza to compete with BJJ on the ground.
    You came here looking for a school. A Kosen school. The only reason you look for a Kosen school is because you want newaza but you've got a bee in your bonnet about BJJ.

    So this is about you, not some mythical body of Judo players. The vast majority play Judo as a sport and couldn't really give a **** about BJJ's supposed dominance in MMA, or it's relativly superior newaza.

    Those of us who do care train newaza with people who know how, for most of us those people will be BJJ players. It's not going to taint the purity of your Judo if you take a little BJJ on the side. At the end of the day styles and labels aren't important, only the training, it doesn't really matter what it's called.
  4. GrandMaster00 is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2007 5:38pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: several planned

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am stoked to take Judo and BJJ hence having them shown as my martial art. There are plenty of other people that would like more newaza in Judo similar to the BJJ curriculum as I have read it myself in the Bullshido forums. As for the Judo BB defeating the BJJ BB, it is not impossible especially if you keep him from taking you to the ground, but once there I still contend the BJJ person has a clear advantage and it is well known that BJJ employs many techniques forbidden in Judo.

    As for not having started any MA training yet, I was being honest and not misrepresenting myself as the purpose of this thread was to gather information to make the best choice possible. I don't think being an uninitiate or a BB in any MA makes you any more or less of a person. Everyone needs to relax and ease off flaming me, I'm not trying to put down Judo or any MA style, I mainly wanted to find out if Kosen Judo was here and it most likely is not. If you know of any Kosen Judo dojos in America, I would love to know otherwise the obvious conclusion has already been reached. Lets all take a deep breath and count to 10. Can't we all just get along?
  5. Tomas Drgon is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2007 3:40pm


     Style: n/a

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze
    No, it's zero.

    Kosen isn't a seperate style, it's Kodokan Judo played with less restrictions on newaza. And it's only played at a specific set of Kosen universities in Japan.
    I'm not even sure whether anyone currently focuses solely on kosen ruleset.

    There's a couple of tapes out with some old footage but it's not like there is a major "kosen" movement in Japan or anything...

    Tomas
  6. GrandMaster00 is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2007 3:56pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: several planned

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I found an example of what I am refering to. Check out


    http://www.combatjudo.us/ or http://www.etownbjj.com/

    This is the closest one I could find to where I live http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~rjjc/


    Judo mixed with BJJ, now if only there was a dojo here for this style.



    :waoya GrandMaster00
    Last edited by GrandMaster00; 10/30/2007 3:06pm at .
  7. Matt W. is offline
    Matt W.'s Avatar

    Community Corrections Officer

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    Spokane, WA
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    Posted On:
    10/29/2007 4:07pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What you may find in the states are Judo schools that a.) are not slaves to the Kodokan and actually train with other/no rulesets and b.) do a lot of newaza. They are not Kosen, but they are good schools that teach well a rounded grappling curriculum.
  8. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2007 4:10pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Man, that schools sucks. The head coach has given me a black eye twice. They compete in multiple rule sets, grappling, Judo, and MMA next week. They teach no gi judo, both coaches are experienced wrestlers, one is a BJJ purple. But I will say they have one of the best looking yellow belts ever, he's both rugged and handsome, what he lacks in height he makes up for in charm, wit and humility.
  9. Ryno is offline

    Senior Member

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    Apr 2005
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    Seattle (Ballard), WA
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    Posted On:
    10/29/2007 5:48pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is no Kosen here in the US. That was a group of schools/Universities in Japan, if I heard correctly. But you may find Judo clubs that randori with a Kosen-style (non-Olympic) ruleset. My club does this regularly. We start from standing, and go through until submission. There are some newaza heavy Judo clubs around that do this, but they are not terribly common compared to Olympic-rules style clubs.
  10. GrandMaster00 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/30/2007 3:15pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: several planned

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Since Sensei's disapprove of you taking multiple MA's at once per what I've read, I believe I will take Enshin first. The only Sensei in all of Texas is in my area and I want to take advantage of this before he closes his dojo as he told me might be a possibility. Hopefully as the years go by and I obtain my black belt in Enshin, someone will open a Judo/BJJ dojo here as there is something of a growing movement to incorporate the two together.



    :waoya GrandMaster00
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