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  1. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2007 9:35am

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not going to reply to posts where my answer would just be a repeat of something I said before. I'm not going to post links to the same videos again. That being the case, I'll try and answer direct questions that bring up something new.
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  2. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2007 9:39am

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity
    Yeh right, I've read Erle Montaguies book and I know that it's actually pressure point strikes.
    There's all sorts of different explanations I hear and read.

    The only answer is: if you have a choice between the teacher who showed you they were throw entries and then had you wrestle and spar, or a teacher who said they were subtle manipulations of your body's hidden energy field, who then asked you to buy his relaxation tapes and video course on the secrets of fucking up people without any physical strength, willingness to endure painful training or getting humiliated by losing required, we all know which would be the better one to pick.
    Last edited by Cullion; 10/27/2007 9:44am at .
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  3. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2007 9:40am

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey
    I won't comment on what taiji is or is not.

    I will, however say:

    1: If taichi is still producing smug, obtuse fatties like Cullion, you still have a lot of work to do
    I've been slimming down for you sugar-plum, and soon we can be together.
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  4. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2007 9:53am


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by D Dempsey
    Most of it is regular MMA. I'm sure CMA has a huge influence on it since he trained in it so long but what he teaches isn't really unique.
    Maybe "regular MMA" in the same sense that san da looks like "regular kickboxing" with an emphasis on throws? I'm not sure how good CMA standup + BJJ would not be regular MMA. Also, I wouldn't expect his stuff to be unique. If it were unique, it would probably suck -- strikes and throws ultimately have to work more or less the same way for everyone, given that we've all got similar bodies.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  5. Cuchulain is offline

    Keeping you safe from Mongolians

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2007 9:59am


     Style: Sanda/Taijiquan *Hiatus*

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For all the people thinking that this is Tai Chi instructors trying to cash in on the success of grappling arts by claiming to have found grappling in their system, you are full of ****. As i said, it's nothing new in Tai Chi, it's always been that way. If anything, it would be the other way around by claiming needle at the bottom of the ocean is a strike to the groin etc
  6. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2007 10:02am

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by seanyseanybean
    For all the people thinking that this is Tai Chi instructors trying to cash in on the success of grappling arts by claiming to have found grappling in their system, you are full of ****. As i said, it's nothing new in Tai Chi, it's always been that way. If anything, it would be the other way around by claiming needle at the bottom of the ocean is a strike to the groin etc
    It depends. If they had no record of training in any live wrestling or full contact, and especially if they started showing the 'hidden ground moves', I would call BS on them.
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  7. Cuchulain is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2007 10:12am


     Style: Sanda/Taijiquan *Hiatus*

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    It depends. If they had no record of training in any live wrestling or full contact, and especially if they started showing the 'hidden ground moves', I would call BS on them.
    Obviously but none of that is the case. (although i am sure that there are some bullshit instructors teaching crappling as in any art)
  8. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2007 10:13am

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Most Tai Chi schools still don't teach anything 'martial' at all.

    Most of the ones that do just demonstrate applications in compliant drills.
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  9. Cuchulain is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2007 10:21am


     Style: Sanda/Taijiquan *Hiatus*

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Most Tai Chi schools still don't teach anything 'martial' at all.

    Most of the ones that do just demonstrate applications in compliant drills.
    Agreed, but again that wasn't in question. What is in question is whether the system Tai Chi is a legitimate wrestling/grappling art.

    I think the simple fact is; most people don't take tai chi to learn anything but forms, that is why most clubs are the way they are.
  10. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2007 10:36am

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Necroth
    Taiji could be 80% wrestling and still it won't make Taiji a grappling art. Why? Because the single proponent that is making all of the other proponents cream themselves had to go train BJJ before making these "realizations".
    Uh, no. He had to go train BJJ before being able to market perfectly ordinary taiji as a rediscovery. This is old wine in a new bottle, not a rediscovery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necroth
    I've practiced some Taiji (before asking, I don't remember what style
    No reason to believe that then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necroth
    Meaning, almost not at all. Peng, Lu and An to your hearts content, but spening more than a few minutes on it is worthless as, just like sticky hands, the range you practice in is a transitional range
    So I guess in this form of taiji you don't remember, they had you doing lots of push hands and reciting lots of Chinese words, and you do remember that...but not what push hands is for. Practicing push hands doesn't get you good at combat, it gets you good at push hands and the skills push hands teaches (weight and balance shifting).

    Quote Originally Posted by Necroth
    Because most know that the reason many movements in Taiji are open hand is because they are meant for weapon play, not for unarmed usage or wrestling.
    Oh man, pleeeeease think real real hard and try to remember the style you studied! This is rich. You know why the empty hand forms aren't secret magic weapon play? Because taiji has weapons training! If someone showed you a form and said "This is really for a spear" without putting a spear in your damn hand first, and then snickered while you tried to lift it, you got rooked, ace.

    Of course, you were also essentially citing a press release from a single (very good) teacher as gospel at the top of your post, so I guess we know about how easy it might be to rook someone...

    Quote Originally Posted by Necroth
    Regardless, if it's good for Cartmell, bully for him. I just don't think I need to "rediscover" Taiji as a form of grappling. BJJ, Judo and Wrestling are all perfectly alright and there is no need to rediscover anything.
    Yes, but for the wrong reason. You can no more rediscover graps in taiji than you can discover your neighbor's backyard. "Wow, unmarked virgin territory nobody has ever seen! With a grill, and a swing set, and my neighbors sitting in it!"
    Last edited by Rivington; 10/27/2007 10:44am at .
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