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  1. G-Off is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/25/2007 11:27pm


     Style: Ronin wannabe

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    NEW Info on Quantum Jujitsu

    Yes, I know I am necroing several threads here, and that QJJ has been discussed before, and I apologize. However, I have slightly new information on it and I didn't know which of the (several) existing threads to put this in. I go to Penn State where QJJ has a club (started originally by Jeremy Corbell), and firstly their video/picture page is here: http://www.clubs.psu.edu/up/quantumjujitsu/picvid.htm. Second, the club just recently (10/20/07) held their first black belt test in their 8 years of existance for a member named Dave Light. A friend of mine trained with QJJ very briefly back when the club was in its infancy, so he was invited to come watch. His impressions:

    "Some of the things I liked, some of the things I totally disagree with.

    Yes he did have to dodge a live sword. That started the test. It was more symbolic and ritualistic than anything. He knew what attack was going to be initiated in advance, and there was a loud kiyai preceding each attack. All he had to do was get out of the way. This was to symbolize dedicating your entire self to the test... basically it was just to put him in a life or death mode.

    The next part of the test was the candidate (Dave) going through series of yoga vinyasa (which is the yoga equivalent of a hyung or kata). This seemed REALLY easy for him. It wasn't too difficult. It barely qualified as a warm-up. Dave wasn't even sweating.

    One of the concepts that I found really cool about the QJJ test is that there were 5 black belts judging him. Each of them had a trial. They had an area of expertise that they were particularly skilled in and they had a challenge for him based on that.

    The first black belt tested him on an advanced form of yoga that was intensive on strength and flexibility. He passed that with little difficulty.

    The next part of the test was standing grappling. One of the things that separated the QJJ test from other BB tests is that there seemed to be plenty of time to rest. The testing panel would frequently explain the purpose of a given test to the audience, which sometimes provided a 3-5 minute rest for the candidate. Dave had to demonstrate several throws, one after another, but there was a relatively substantial pause before announcing the next technique. I supposed they were looking more for technique mastery rather than endurance at this part.

    Shortly thereafter, he selected an opponent from the QJJ club audience, and they did standup grappling (randori) at about 50%. The trial of the next black belt was to face him at the end of the section.

    The same procedure followed with the submission grappling part, again with the candidate facing one of the testing panel.

    Then there was a striking section. Same format, but the opponents faced off with 6oz open fingered MMA gloves and really not much else of any other gear. The testing panel kept yelling at them to strike, take down, and "make it real" but both people seemed to be reserved about going all out with such little gear on.

    The next black belt's test was balance. He required the candidate to spin around until totally dizzy...and then proceeded to attack him all out while he was confused. Dave got really defensive...but then got his equilibrium straightened out and started to fight back. He did this really well.

    The next part I REALLY disagreed with. Dave had to disarm a live knife. The attacked were full force, but he knew what they were going to be in advance. He got cut.... there was some blood shed...they had to tape his hand up. He also had the restriction of keeping the knife under control at all times. It was not acceptable to send the knife flying out of his attacker's hand as there was an audience close by. This is an unrealistic expectation in a street fight.

    JJ students typically don't break wood. Dave had to break 2 boards with a downward palm heel. Rather easy. But the final black belt's test was the test of teaching. He had to pick a student and explain to THEM how to break the boards better than the instruction he was given. He was judged based on if his student could break the boards. Of course, they both had no problem breaking.

    There was a lot of ceremony related to accepting his black belt. It seemed like if the ceremonial stuff was cut out of the test, it would have shaved an hour off of it.

    Dave's teacher, Cory Wimberly, also got promoted to the first 2nd degree QJJ black belt. It was a big day for both Cory and Dave. It was very significant to them. I've known Cory since he started the club up here in 1999, and he's really a stand up guy. He's now a philosophy professor in Texas I beleive.

    So overall they had some really good ideas for the test and things that I consider questionable.
    I've got to give them mad props for the trials of the black belts. That was a really cool idea. Each black belt had their specialty, and he had to pass all of them.

    On the other hand, it wasn't anywhere near as intense as a TSD BB test. Dave was in no danger of passing out. I think a full hour passed before he even broke a sweat. There was plenty of time to rest as the panel explained sections of the test to the audience, and paused between techniques. Mid test they even paused for a 5 minute break.

    Worst of all was the defense of the live knife with restrictions. If he has the intent to attack you with a live knife, it is unfair to place restrictions on what you can do to disarm him. If someone had the unmitigated gall to attack you with lethal intent, you have the right if you so deem it necessary to shove that knife right up his ass until he shits stainless steel for a month. To say restrict disarm techniques to only that which keeps the knife under your control is unfair. Worse, my fear was more for the attacker. If he fell on that knife during a disarm, someone could have been really hurt. Not just cut...I mean rushed to the hospital.

    Anyway, that's what you missed. It was a good test and I really like the QJJ club...they had a lot of good ideas....but I've really gotta question some of those points I've mentioned. "


    Note: TSD refers to Tang Soo Do; he and I are in the same Tang Soo studio.
    Last edited by G-Off; 10/26/2007 12:08am at .
  2. G-Off is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/25/2007 11:39pm


     Style: Ronin wannabe

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thirdly, I was thinking about joining QJJ next semester, and I most likely am going to (and I will write a dojo review at the end of my experience). But when I talked to my friend about joining, he had this advice for me back in September:

    "Yo... you might want to bypass the Quantum Jujitsu. I've trained with pretty much every martial arts club on campus at some time or another, so I can save you some time.

    First of all, I really like the attitude of the QJJ members. They are serious, and they came to train hard. I knew the founder of QJJ at PSU when he came here from California years ago, Cory Wimberly. He's an awesome bro.

    I don't mean to offend them, I like those guys, but my problem is that their skills are far inferior to Oishi's Judo club, at least back in my day. Seriously. I was tapping their advanced members without using my strength with Day #1 Judo. I was surprised that they didn't know this stuff. Oishi trained in Japan for 6 hours every single day. His knowledge is far superior to QJJ. He is however hard to get along with by some people's opinions. He's very unforgiving in training and has a rough sense of humor. It's very hard to tell someone who trained that hard "I can only make it to class once a week." (... by the way, he hates that.)"

    A few caveats to this-First, his impressions of the QJJ club were from it's infancy around 2000, so things may have changed some since then. Second, as he mentions he is a judoka, but he's also a power lifter and weighs 345. So, although technique >>> strength in grappling and he says he wasn't using his strength, his abnormal size and strength may have influenced how well the QJJ members did against him. Thirdly, as he states, the Judo club is pretty hardcore at PSU, so "day 1" judo stuff might be a little different than what it sounds like.

    Having said all that however, QJJ does sound rather suspect as a useful martial art and club. Finally, at least one of their members does some actual fighting, and there's a video of his second fight on the club site.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU2otAqN4sc

    Hopefully I'll be able to give a comprehensive review of the PSU QJJ club at the end of spring semester 2008.
    Last edited by G-Off; 10/26/2007 1:59am at . Reason: Minor Typos
  3. variance is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2007 12:29am


     Style: EF UM A

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quantum Jujitsu, a name like that is just asking for some fun.


    Where you don't know how fast you can go, or where you are
    at the same time.

    Where you are both submitted and KO'd at the same time.

    Where victories are not deterministic.

    Where no one is a winner. and no one is a loser.
    a Quantum Jujitsu theory called Winner-Loser duality.

    Where techniques ALWAYS happen in discerete quantifiable steps.

    Where you ALWAYS win unless there is an observer.
  4. NJM is offline
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    Putting the "ow" back in "flowery technique"

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2007 12:36am


     Style: CMA, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by variance
    Quantum Jujitsu, a name like that is just asking for some fun.


    Where you don't know how fast you can go, or where you are
    at the same time.

    Where you are both submitted and KO'd at the same time.

    Where victories are not deterministic.

    Where no one is a winner. and no one is a loser.
    a Quantum Jujitsu theory called Winner-Loser duality.

    Where techniques ALWAYS happen in discerete quantifiable steps.

    Where you ALWAYS win unless there is an observer.
    Al, get me out of here!
  5. golsa is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2007 12:44am


     Style: sport Aikido & Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by variance
    Where victories are not deterministic.

    Where no one is a winner. and no one is a loser.
    a Quantum Jujitsu theory called Winner-Loser duality.
    Quantum AikikaiBJJ!
    Last edited by golsa; 10/26/2007 12:46am at .
  6. variance is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2007 1:25am


     Style: EF UM A

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NJM
    Al, get me out of here!
    This guy's not impressed with that weak video of a guy who "fights"


    Oh, boy...
  7. G-Off is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2007 1:34am


     Style: Ronin wannabe

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just to get it out of the way...

    Yes, "Quantum" Jujitsu is a way damn stupid name for a martial art, unless it's for approximately molecule-sized people.
    Last edited by G-Off; 10/26/2007 1:54am at .
  8. soundless is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2007 12:09pm


     Style: Sambo, MT, BJJ, CH

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    your video isn't working.. this was posted yesterday, that was pretty fast
  9. datdamnmachine is offline
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    Jiu Jitsu - Sometimes passing just isn't an option.

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2007 12:41pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Unauthorized Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From what I understand, it's a Japanese Jujitsu variant that seems to train alive more so then other JJJ camps. The downside being that they are just as much into a lot of the customs, traditions, and ceremony of JJJ as well. I've also stated before in one of those QJJ threads that the sword cutting thing is complete and utter stupidity. There was a video on their website before of someone else test and they showed that. Coupled with the knife attack, it just verifies it more. The difference between a cut and a gash is only inches if less.
  10. G-Off is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2007 12:53pm


     Style: Ronin wannabe

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by soundless
    your video isn't working.. this was posted yesterday, that was pretty fast
    Really? It's working for me...

    Try the link instead: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU2otAqN4sc

    Also, for some reason the video is all gray for the first 2-3 seconds, then it clears up.
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