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  1. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2007 3:11pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fatherdog
    In a pure thai match, yeah, but in MMA if you bring your hips in too close you're going to get bodylocked and taken down.
    You mean like how Rick Franklin is always bodylocking and slamming Anderson Silva? The more I spar with MMA guys the more I think that's a spurious argument and they just don't know how to clinch.

    If you are of a mind to respond, respond here: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show....php?p=1608775
    Last edited by WhiteShark; 10/24/2007 3:21pm at .
  2. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2007 3:21pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by feedback
    How about showing a video? I'm guessing because of the fact you made it a gif and put it as your avatar that you're pretty impressed with yourself. Don't be, if that's the cream of the crop. BAM.
    The video was posted weeks and weeks ago, jackass.
  3. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2007 3:50pm

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     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark
    You mean like how Rick Franklin is always bodylocking and slamming Anderson Silva?
    In fact, if you watch their previous match, Franklin was several times able to swim in and turn Silva's thai clinch into a greco-esque body-to-body tie, which is one of the reasons it lasted a lot longer than the first one. And the one takedown that he got in the fight was in fact exactly that - Silva clinched him, Franklin bodylocked him and hip-threw him.

    When I watch Thai boxing (and I have, a lot) the thais keep their hips close, /except/ when they're throwing knees, in which case they put their hips back first to put more power into the knee strikes. The way I was taught (and my former instructor trained under and was certified by Vut Kamanark, which is a fairly good Thai pedigree), you stay close to make it harder for /them/ to knee /you/, particularly when you have a "half clinch" so both of you are in position to throw knees. When you have a full clinch, them bodylocking you and taking you down is much more of a concern than them kneeing you, so your hips should accordingly be further back - and in fact when I watched matches at Lumpinee, 90% of the time when the hips were close it rapidly went from a plumb clinch to both guys being body-to-body with a head and arm clinch, throwing skip knees to the side.
    Last edited by Fighting Cephalopod; 10/24/2007 3:54pm at .
    Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
  4. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2007 4:01pm

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     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!


    Check the first knee, immediately following Franklin's Xyience endorsement - this is what I'm talking about. Silva's hips are just as far back as Phrost's, if not more so.

    Phost's hand position could use a little work, and he should have been on his toes, and these are things that are the same whether you're doing Thai or MMA. But his hips were fine, imo.
    Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
  5. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2007 4:09pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You got me on Phrost's avatar. I only saw about half his knees the first time I looked at it. I thought he was swinging the guy with his hips out at the end.

    I still think except when he is kneeing Silva keeps his hips in closer and his body up higher than almost everyone else in the UFC.
  6. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2007 4:34pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    He probably does; he also put his hands down and bent over at the waist while being punched and kicked at by Franklin. It's not always a good idea to generalize from one, very gifted example.

    If you watch Vanderlei and Shogun when they get a full plumb, usually their hips are much further back.

    Having your hips closer certainly isn't /wrong/, but it does put you at more risk for takedowns and bodylocks, so you have to take that into account, and I believe for that reason having your hips further back can't be considered "wrong" either, in an MMA context.
    Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
  7. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2007 5:03pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A lot of it also depends on your reach vs. theirs I'd wager. Looking back on it now, I was a bit lazy with my hands for two reasons:

    1. I wasn't too worried about getting hit because I had a substantial reach advantage.
    2. I'm just generally a lazy fighter.

    Working on both of those though. :(
  8. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2007 8:28pm

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     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My rule of thumb for the hips is they can keep going back as long as your elbows don't come away from your body. Once you're leaning enough that your elbows are forward, you're no longer in a position of structural strength with your arms, and it becomes much easier for your opponent to escape.

    Going back to Anderson Silva as an example, you can see that he does this most of the time - a lot of the time when he brings his hips close, it's because his opponent is moving backwards, so he has to quickly bring his hips forward to maintain that good elbow position. When the opponent is coming forward, you can put your hips further back, and in fact you should because that's when they're going to come into a bodylock or takedown. Looking at the Franklin fight, you can see that the few times that Silva lets his elbows get extended are the times that Franklin's able to escape from the clinch.
    Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
  9. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2007 11:39pm

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by feedback
    How about showing a video? I'm guessing because of the fact you made it a gif and put it as your avatar that you're pretty impressed with yourself. Don't be, if that's the cream of the crop. BAM.
    Hey, at least he's out there fighting. I (am as Shum reminded me, a senile drama whore) can't remember feedback, do you fight? I'm like ancient, but did my best to beat the **** out of a rude Kenpo brown a while back in class (good ol' overhand rights), but I sure don't get into the ring. So props to him posting.
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  10. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2007 12:19am

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     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're hooking off a planted back foot, dude. Your hook should be the harder of the 1-2 : )

    Seriously, though, you've definitely improved since the first fight you posted. You looked much better and it could have gone your way.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
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