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  1. shoebox is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2007 3:13pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shaolin LF

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Present Situation of Chinese Martial Arts

    Hello everybody,

    Can anybody tell me the present situation of Chinese martial arts? I read from various sources that much of Chinese martial arts being taught today are for demonstration/health purposes but the combat root has been lost. Further, I heard that only a handful of masters exist that have the depth of knowledge in the traditional arts. Thanks for helping me understand the present state of Chinese martial arts.
  2. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/21/2007 3:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    San da is the future of Chinese martial arts, in my opinion. It was an attempt to use the best of kung fu and pressure test it. San da competition is great in the NE usa...I can't speak for anyone else. Boston alone has several schools that teach it, and do it well...so I may get a distorted view of the state of the art. Thai boxers often compete against san da fighters in this region. It's a beautiful thing, sometimes san da rules, sometimes Muay thai rules. The results vary, but it's always entertaining.

    The throws and restarts make for strike heavy, and somewhat fierce combat, great strikes especially. Knees to the body keep it gully, and provide for busy clinchwork (only 3 seconds or so to do something without a reset).

    As a sport, san da will attain newcomers faster than tcma, and people training just for the sport (such as myself) will multiply...and because of the nature of the sport (full contact yeah!), it won't wither, or thin out....getting KTFO, or Randleplexed into the foundation can disprove some silly notions on fighting in today's world where jail is teh r3al str33t.
  3. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/21/2007 3:43pm

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     Style: MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As I understand, martial arts and performance have been intertwined for a great many hundreds of years. In Outlaws of the Marsh, a novelwritten in the 14th century, there are several mentions of martial artists putting on shows with sabres and spears to entertain people and make money. The performance aspect of CMA is not something that only came about it modern times; just look at a traditional long fist form, and try to say that aesthetics weren't a motivation in some of the movements.
    With modern CMA, you essentially have the performance aspect and combat aspect divided into pure forms, being performance wushu and San Da. Wushu is all forms; San Da is all fighting. I personally find it a much more agreeable set up, and would much rather train in wushu on one day and learn forms oriented around impressing my friends, then fight and do San Da on the next day, rather than study at an American-style TCMA school that tries to insist that form training will make me better at fighting.
    Sadly, I've only ever really had opportunities to train in the performance-side of the coin. I'm a huge San Da fan, though.
  4. Askari is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2007 3:45pm


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shoebox
    Further, I heard that only a handful of masters exist that have the depth of knowledge in the traditional arts.
    You are absolutely correct. The only way to tell if they are a real master is if they can knock you out without touching you.

    This level of Chi control is very rare today and only is highly developed in a few:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM_qg5d1YGI
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  5. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/21/2007 4:49pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The question is rather overbroad, if you ask me. Which arts, and where in the world?
  6. Jadonblade is offline
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    Hoo Ha!

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2007 5:10pm

    supporting member
     Style: San Da, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    San da will become prevailent (I hope), as the world decides to take less crap. We were encouraged to the traditional art along our san da though, and they did help each other. Essentially its down how much we can get san da out there, Cung Le will make a big splash if he starts doing more fights. And people love the MT vs San da stuff, k-1 is perfect for san da as well.

    There were talks of putting it in the upcoming olympic games but I dont think thats gonna happen now.

    Other than that, now that someone like Keanu can look as good as Jet Li, the exposure from movies will go down. Although there is a San da film! and it looks good as well!
  7. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2007 5:24pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shoebox
    Hello everybody,

    Can anybody tell me the present situation of Chinese martial arts? I read from various sources that much of Chinese martial arts being taught today are for demonstration/health purposes but the combat root has been lost. Further, I heard that only a handful of masters exist that have the depth of knowledge in the traditional arts. Thanks for helping me understand the present state of Chinese martial arts.
    Its intersting that people have all (virtually all) used your question as a way to discuss an issue that interests them related to the Chinese Arts, nary giving a thought to answering your question.

    Generally speaking there is evidence that much in China is still around, despite commercialism, consumerism and the usual BS that one can expect regarding arts and lineages. Heres the thing: Your on a board that generally has some hostility to many Chinese Arts, and you are going to get the guys who believe that if the art cannot function in the ring it is useless. Bless them, they are God's children also :eusa_droo but people fought in wars, challenge matches, etc with Chinese Arts for centries prior to MMA stuff.

    The fact is, yes in Mainland China most Chinese Arts were subsumed by the government and put into Wu Shu and whatever version of their sport stuff they are saying they do now. The process is not altogethr different than making the Diato Ryu and Kodokan organizations in Japan. But Robert Smith (You can google him and get his titles) writes extensively about Taiwan... a place where many traditiona Chinese Boxers fled... and training with some bad mother fuckers there. His agenda is non-existant. He is not afraid to call BS and trained with Drager and the rest of the boys who were the first generation bad asses in Judo and karate stuff. You can find stuff on John Bloom here in this site and he was one of that gang.

    I would say there are guys around who know their Chinese arts, but you have to look hard and you have to avoid the BS like Chi tricks and like eleborate manoveurs that look gymnastic in nature. The Chinese boxers I have worked with over the years that were good were very matter of fact, had abilites that were immanently obvious (they hit you you hurt) and didn't want to talk about chi and mystical forces! Hope this helps, google Smith.

    The one problem people have is that there is still a prejudice against teaching foreigners AT TIMES!!, take that for what it is worth, not all Chinese teachers feel this way... and frankly learning a little Mandarin (even if a teacher is Cantonese) might go a long way towards bridging this gap, because the Chinese also beleive culturally that if somoene makes an effort they can actually learn to be Chinese to some degree.
  8. LowwerWay is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2007 10:16pm


     Style: ex-KF, now Judoka + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja
    San da is the future of Chinese martial arts
    SanDa is an insignifican blip on the radar screen combarred to amatuer and professional mma. If Chinese martial arts are to survive other than in a few isolated pockets, they need to represent in these venues and succumb to the eventual assimilation that will occur.
  9. djchangster is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2007 10:36pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: the shaolin & wu tang

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    its the same it has been since the beginning of kung fu - you just have to find a good teacher, and a real one - just like other arts there are people who lie about what they can or can not do

    one way to learn kung fu really good is train with the Taiwan Swat, all members are kung fu masters, and in my opinion would own a lot of MMA fighters

    and if you are willin to train even harder, you can train at the shaolin temple, but gather, it is really hard work....and their skill is extraordinary...be ready to do stance training for 4-5 hours on end, and a lot of forms training - before they show you any applications

    but if you just want to train hard, if you find a real kung fu school - you are going to get worked really hard - possibly the hardest work out i have ever recieved was from a san shou school/tai chi, xingyi, bagua/wushu school - I have never been more tired than working out with them - and san shou throwing techniques are the fastest i have ever witnessed myself
  10. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/21/2007 11:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387
    Generally speaking there is evidence that much in China is still around, despite commercialism, consumerism and the usual BS that one can expect regarding arts and lineages. Heres the thing: Your on a board that generally has some hostility to many Chinese Arts, and you are going to get the guys who believe that if the art cannot function in the ring it is useless. Bless them, they are God's children also :eusa_droo but people fought in wars, challenge matches, etc with Chinese Arts for centries prior to MMA stuff.
    Juuuust to play devil's advocate....
    How many of these wars have China won? I mean, we always here about CMA is awesome because it comes from Battlefield martial arts, but how many foreign powers have the Chinese not lost to in the past eight hundred years?
    Maybe their kung fu really is weak. :P
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