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  1. Bear1980 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    London
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    372

    Posted On:
    11/21/2007 7:15am


     Style: VT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolverk
    That is what trapping is, move in, pin the striking arm and drill them a quick shot into the face, then transition to something else. I think it is great.
    Yeah my thoughts exactly.


    Trap the arm, plant a Good Shot then Move.
    This is how trapping should be used- However most VT/WC/WT schools place to much enthesis on trying to control their opponents limbs when they should be thinking about getting the **** out the way.
  2. Ryno is offline

    Senior Member

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    Apr 2005
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    Seattle (Ballard), WA
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2007 11:51am


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    Well, it was a joke, but no....clinching is a trap. You are preventing them from striking with the arms by trapping them in a "hug".
    Not exactly, as I'm looking at it. I suppose it might depend on the applications, but when I hear trap, I think of an obstruction to an extremity. Something like pressing his arm down to his body. With a clinch, there is also obstruction of strikes obviously, but the goal of a clinch is to control your opponent's core/center of mass/hips/whatever you want to call it. You are focused on this control to prevent your opponent's mass from doing anything.

    In a proper clinch, whether it's Thai-style, Greco Roman, or whatever, your opponent can't move his hips properly, cannot take a step, is tipped off balance, and you can steer his entire body like a bus. A trap as I generally see it does not have this mass control, where you have direct control of his hips. A trap is just a re-direction of an extremity to open a lane for striking. Your opponeent can get out of this obstruction by simply quickly changing range, or clearing your trap with his own. A clinch cannot be cleared so easily, as it is a full body lock.

    Having some bit of Judo/Sombo and Muay Thai background it does bug me that so many FMA folks don't understand what a proper clinch really entails. It is a very valid control tactic that can setup strikes, throws, and lots of other nastyfun stuff.
  3. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar

    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,528

    Posted On:
    11/21/2007 1:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ok, they are not trapped in a clinch.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  4. selfcritical is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    austin, tx
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    2,428

    Posted On:
    11/21/2007 1:44pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How about this; the skills one evolves in jamming, passing, pinning, and clearing an opponents limbs are not the same skills one uses in controlling the opponents core to leverage his mass(come to think of it, that would probably be the way i'd describe the chi sau vs push hands split too)
  5. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar

    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,528

    Posted On:
    11/21/2007 2:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bear1980
    .....However most VT/WC/WT schools place to much enthesis on trying to control their opponents limbs when they should be thinking about getting the **** out the way.

    Since this is a FMA thread I want to elaborate on this. A similear issue is being discussed in another thread currently.

    THe WT I was taught is about punching and kicking people tell they stop. Sometimes they put up interference so the thing to train WITH OTHER PEOPLE is what to do with their limbs when you feel them in the way.

    This often leads to people foretting about avoiding the limbs all together. The goal in Leung Tings mottos is "too win with a single blow"

    Same thing in Escrima. The Goal is to avoid theirs while yours strikes clean for the win. Sometimes(often) they also avoid and they strike clean and the weapons collide. So alot of the training is on weapon impact and then what strike to do next.

    Luckily getting out of the way of a sword or rattan club isn't often forgotten about! But you still find people forgetting why they strike stick to stick, or why they do the drills in the videos in this thread.

    Its not to make contact happen, its to practice for WHAT IF contact happens.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  6. IndoChinese is offline

    AKAKTK

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    angola, ny
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    2,047

    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 5:53pm


     Style: Liu Seong Gung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How about this; the skills one evolves in jamming, passing, pinning, and clearing an opponents limbs are not the same skills one uses in controlling the opponents core to leverage his mass(come to think of it, that would probably be the way i'd describe the chi sau vs push hands split too)
    i'll definately go there with you, with the addition that good 'trapping' should have the qualities of tiu shou...ie. offbalancing, offstructuring, and core control. and this is all dancing around the subject of good bridging also (semantics). there are a few different ways to break off of a trap/obstruction/bridge, but they should all throw the opponent into a negative.
    Last edited by IndoChinese; 11/22/2007 6:00pm at .
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