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  1. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2007 6:18pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For those that like posting videos in DHS: This is a good example of what you should do if you're going to post them. Analysis with added content is key.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  2. Judobum is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2007 10:37pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ViciousFlamingo
    Do you usually duck your head when you're going for morote gari, or rather, is it necessary to duck your head? If so, how do you prevent the guy from taking the guillotine?
    You want to minimize ducking your head. When you enter, try to lower your hips and keep your head up rather than bending at the waist. This makes it easier for you to adjust your entry and gives you more power with better body posture, plus it makes it harder for your opponent to do a guillotine. Your head likely will duck as you grab and move forward but try to hold off as long as possible.

    As JabCrossHook mentioned a guillotine isn't a concern in judo competition because if they do put it on you'll definately plant them on their back for ippon since they won't be able to turn out. If you do get caught in a guillotine in BJJ/grappling you'll be able to put them down pretty hard if you want to. If it's a competition I'd plant my shoulder in their chest and slam them hard to try to stun them and escape. More than likely the force of the landing will loosen their arm enough to slip out though I haven't really tested this.
  3. Judobum is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2007 10:42pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    I have problems with doubles while wearing a gi because it is easier to stuff. How is this dealt with in judo?
    The way I find is to set up your doubles. Working from a grip situation is actually better because it's less expected than shooting from the outside. Attacking when the opponent is moving backwards makes it harder for them to sprawl as well.

    The judo style morote-gari is different as well in that you tend to grab higher on the legs and throw up and outwards. This makes it more difficult for the opponent to push off since if you've got a good hold of the upper legs you can still lift them up and throw them back unless they get a really good sprawl along with pushing you off.

    The main thing is to do it from in closer rather than trying to shoot in. Setting it up with grips and ashi-waza helps as well, you just need to find spots to do it in.
  4. Longhorn is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/20/2007 12:27am


     Style: judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i usually get single or double sleeve control, then enter for morote gari. this way i can clear his hands/forarms/elbows as well as be close enough for a penetrating shot. it also gives me a bit of control over kuzushi and just that split second of off balance is enough to take their focus away from sprawling.
  5. krazy kaju is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2007 11:54am


     Style: In Hiatus

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Isn't it too easy to sprawl on that?

    That's what always confuses me about gi BJJ and judo. The doubles are more like 'leg dives', if you will.

    Is this because gripping the gi and the opponent in an upright position provides for a really good setup or something?
  6. Tom .C is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2007 1:46pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Aikido,Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In morote gari, you enter with your head up and lower your hips, back straight. The opponent is backing up off balance. Unless a mistake is made on entry, a sprawl will not likely be available because the victim is falling away from you .
  7. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2007 5:28pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's the idea behind a standard double as well. The sprawl works when you break their posture.
  8. krazy kaju is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2007 5:47pm


     Style: In Hiatus

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    That's the idea behind a standard double as well. The sprawl works when you break their posture.
    I was saying that by wrestling standards, that posture sucked.

    Here are ones which would be considered good:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClG2VGOt60c
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLU_kPOASOU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1CMFj5UK9Y

    You can see in all these examples that the shooter drops levels more and has better posture, ready to pop his hips in place.

    I'm not saying that Judobum is doing something wrong, as I'm sure it works w/ the gi and the more upright postures in grappling sports w/ gis.
  9. Judobum is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2007 11:37pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It works on a couple different levels and differently than a wrestling double.

    First off, your goal is to put your opponent on his back with speed, force and control. A wrestling double is looking to take an opponent down but more for positional dominance than landing him flat on his back. Your posture can't be as low as your video demo because you won't get any amplitude on your throw. It's a nice takedown but won't score you an ippon which is your goal in sport judo.

    Second you have pants to grab. This changes things a lot. You can control your opponents hips when you grab the pant leg and direct his fall. You use the strong grip on the pants to first lift your opponent up and out and then direct him down onto his back, countering any attempts he makes to spin out onto his front by pushing the opposite way he tries to spin. The throw is up and out, then down, while a wrestling double is down.

    Looking at the videos you posted, the wrestling double would score a yuko (on the side) or koka with the way the opponent falls in the first two demos. The third is interesting since it's a much more similar tecnique and looks nice. I'd have some serious reservations about being able to pull it off with fully lifting your opponent against someone resisting. I'm not talking about resisting in BJJ or MMA/NHB either since in that scenario getting thrown onto your back isn't good but it isn't the end of the match or all you're worried about. In a sport judo competition all you're worried about is not getting thrown on your back. When a guy does a low shoot like that, you're going to sprawl and push him off as hard as you can. Another big difference is the gi. Instead of trying to push off a sweat shoulder you have a nice handle spread all across your opponent. Get two fistfulls of gi, pop your hips back and that kind of double is getting stuffed.

    The judo-style morote I demonstrated overcomes this by forcing your opponent to move backwards. First you enter when your opponent is already moving backwards. Second you pretty much run at him and lift him up, pushing him backwards. Even if he sprawls and moves backwards you can keep pushing forwards and upwards. Once he leaves his feet you'll feel his balance break backwards and you can stop and falls forwards which will carry him down and onto his back. Once his toes leave the mat I usually use my head to push him backwards. This is something I used to do a lot in tournaments. Guys would get caught and backpedal while I had their pants. They would see the red mat and figure they were safe (out of the contest area);. At that time a throw counted if it was initiated in bounds and part of the thrower was still in.. I would push them back and when they saw they were past the red mat they would often relax. I would keep pushing forwards until my toes were on the edge of the red and then fall, extending forwards. Often they'd land on their back, I'd be laid out with my toes on the edge of the red and get the score. Sorry it's hard to really explain that whole thing.


    So this style of morote is a combination double, slam and football tackle. You use a solid grip on the pants and lots of forward momentum to take your opponent down and onto his back in a dynamic fashion versus a lower posture and lower grip to more gradually break you opponent down in a wrestling style double.
  10. pumpkinhead is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2007 12:26am


     Style: Judo, Muay Thai, MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That is a nice set up for Morote Gari and a very nice analysis of how the technique works.

    It wouldn't be that easy to get a guillotine from this because your head and shoulders are more driving in to the chest, not beside there body/under there arm.
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