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  1. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/27/2007 12:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've worked out, for years or days, in several Hawaiian Kempo schools. They vary widely, with some doing kata, some doing no kicks, some teaching spinning wheels, and so forth. I was pming and decided that what I was writing should go here:


    ****, you are one of the people who'd I'd love to see in Prof Clarence Emperado's KSDI in Honolulu (ed. include all Bullies). It was mental strain for me as we did only one thing, sd. Opponent move with hands, grabs, sticks, knives and gun for what seemed to be about four hours, but was an hour and a half (did I mention mental, the physical got me shaking tired). They hated my Kyokushin single strike stuff and I realized what a small skill set of techniques I was able to come up with, if I didn't use KK type sd (like my sensie's knife defense was to palm heel the forehead and it worked fine for him), or just pull 'em into a RNC and kick their legs out from underneath type stuff.

    They were using some multi strike (no kicks) that I'd question, but their use of strikes + standing JJ + body and stance flow (Andriano sez it's from Kali - maybe balance is better word than stance) + their improvisational aspect of response was great stuff. As Meex put it in a post of Kajukenbo, I "brought my skills in for a test drive." And everyone who is interested in sd mas would benefit.

    I had total fun, if a bit humbling. I don't agree with everything (power KK strikes and kicks do work, for me). But the range of techniques and the smooth improvisations were inspiring. Mentally there was NO time off. I'm used to spending some time in class doing drills that are usually rather simple. Doing drills does improve or maintain skills. A hundred front kicks means my front kick has good form. But they had no drills. The BBs I worked with were happy to show me stuff, so there was plenty of opportunities to learn. But learning that fast and paying attention is hard.

    Too much LIVE training.


    As Meex put it,

    " Many of the branches claiming Kajukenbo lineage basically teach whatever the instructor first learned (many kempo-karate instructors), and incorporated techniques they thinkare okay to add. This in no way means they teach Kajukenbo.

    Even within the KSDI schools, there is some politics going on, and diversity, and watering down, leaving many (high belt instructors, professors, and the like) unable to actually defend their belt status.


    **
    If any of you are in Hwaii, and want to see real kajukenbo?
    Check out Clarence (Luna) Emperado's class,
    Mondays and Wednesdays, 6:00-7:30 or 8:00pm
    at Royal School (on the Punchbowl exit off the H-1 freeway)

    Original techniques are still being taught, as well as applications and evolutions that have been brought out of the system over the yearz. Real techniques for the real world. . .no tournaments, no bragging, no bulls**t.

    This class is for beginners, as well as advanced students. How often have you heard of a class that 3rd and 4th degree students come to train? Not teach, train. . .run through drills with the rest, etc.

    Anyway, kajukenbo, taught correctly, is as good and complete as anything I've seen out thee in 35 years of ma.


    **
    Clarence is the adopted son o Adriano Emperado, and grew up in the wonderful community of Mayor Wright's Housing. Needless to say, his kajukenbo training was both hard, and battle-tested. His partner, John Pascua is well versed in the game. . .bring your knowledge in for a test drive. Their black belt tests incled a "bull-ring" to demonstrate whether or not they have learned their art. The ring members are all blackbelts, and they give no quarter to pretenders entering their ranks.
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  2. mike321 is online now

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2007 11:17pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    patfromlogan,

    It sounds like the training/drilling was excellent. What type of techniques did kajukenbo bring that you don't find elsewhere? I only now about this art from written descriptions of its history.
  3. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2007 6:21pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, Mike, that would be a real long essay. I wish I knew how to put a vid I have of being taught a move - I do a double grab and he drops an elbow cross arm into my elbow and as the weight shifts reaches with his other hand and does a neck crank, ending with me on my back, either in standing armbar, cross lying armbar, knee on head + armbar, or a variety of chokes and or wrist and elbow and should dislocations and controls... Clear?

    Let's see, uh, in Kajukenbo I learned to kick the armpit! And make it "crack" everytime when striking the cup during sd, and a bunch on brotherhood.
  4. mike321 is online now

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2007 8:27pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think I can visualize the move you are describing. As I mentioned in a previous post, that is a type of move that I was skeptical of until I trained with people who could do them well.

    I have heard about hitting the armpit with hand strikes, so it makes sense that kicks could also work out.

    My kenpo classes were also a daily "cup check".

    I will add a move that I learned that I particularly liked in an effort to keep the thread going. Also I need to work on my writing if I want to make meaningful posts:

    Starting from a basic fighting stance. Simultaneously, use the lead hand to grab the throat and the rear hand to grab the opponents lead wrist. (The wrist grab makes it a potential weapon defense.) If you get the wrist, you hold your arm out fixed, if you miss you keep your arms up. The throat strike is quickly released and your hand is raised to a protective position. The hand up then strikes the throat again.
  5. draygin is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2007 8:48pm


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I guess I'm getting in on the tail end of this, but I'll chime in.

    I started in EPAK in Philladelphia. The first week we had a seminar with Remy Presas and got into ground fighting. We sparred at least twice a week and hit hard during training. We did boxing drills and some lock flows. I thought it was awesome, and it was. We tried to keep it as real as possible. I trained there for three years and met Frank Trejo at Valley Forge.

    What he did looked effortless. I spoke with him for a few minutes and he told me I should move to LA and train with him. I did.

    Whole new world. One of the first thing he told me was, "Go out and hit the heavy bag."

    We had just gotten back from an all you can eat buffet and he got me stuffed. I said back to him, "I'll puke if I do." I was in good shape but didn't eat too close to a workout.

    He said, "Then hit it till you puke."

    An hour and a half latter he came out and said,"I guess you're not going to puke." He pushed me to my limits. After that is was 3 hours 3 times a week training in Boxing, Kick-boxing, Muy-Thai and hard and fast. In the evening I taught class and then we worked on our Kenpo techniques and forms back at his garage for another hour or two.

    I was working out with him everyday, and it was never BS. If it didn't work, he didn't teach it. He modified a few things and had me do things in a traditional style for tests and practice, but we also went for it after we learned the techniques. No more passive partners.

    He also invited people over to fight from time to time to work our skills. He wanted to make sure we were really fighting and not dummying up. He thought there should be no reason one of his students should ever lose a fight.

    On top of all of this he was like a father to me. He gave me as much reality in my training as anyone could ask for. The training you see these MMA guys doing now we were doing before the UFC. Frank was a real world old school fighter and if you wanted to train with him that was what you did. He had no problem asking someone to find another school if they had a bad attitude or didn't want to take it serious.

    Oh yeah, we also did sticky hands like I've never seen anyone else do. He was just awesome and I have found myself in few situations where I did not feel confident. Not due to the cool moves I did on passive attackers, but the reality of the training. I did security work and was a bouncer in a few places in LA and I never had a problem I couldn't handle, even a few where I was outnumbered.

    I also got to meet a boat load of MA legends. That would be another thread though. It's hard to put in a thread what I got out of my training, it was 15 years of great moments one after the other.
  6. Masta Killa is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/11/2008 11:56am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kempo, Karate, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    After 4 years of dedicated training, I earned a black belt from Universal Kempo back in 1996. I still consider (Hawaiian-style) Kempo as my base art, even after subsequent training in Korean Karate, JKD/Kali and BJJ. The best things I got out of it were:
    - transitioning from one range to another, but no actual grappling in the early 90s curriculum. After a takedown, we did groundwork (i.e., striking and stomping the person while they're down).
    - making hard contact when practicing self defense (especially smacking that groin cup).
    - keeping my hands up during kickboxing-style sparring.
    - learning to take some punishment, maintain composure and carry on.
    - keeping my kicks low and effective.
    - accuracy with my striking was as important as developing power.
    - and finally, black uniforms were way cooler than white ones.

    Just my 2 cents.
  7. bushi_no_ki is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/11/2008 11:25pm


     Style: TMA, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From a Theoretical POV, it's a good way to learn how to move. The techniques and forms contain great principles of motion in them. When you try to put the techs to the test in a sparring match, you find they don't work exactly how you practice them, but you attempt to work something off the principles you learned. Personally, I'd quit teaching AKK after blue belt, and start teaching more clinch and grappling.
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