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  1. Ke?poFist is online now
    Ke?poFist's Avatar

    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2007 2:09am

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    The good in Kempo/Kenpo Discussion

    Ok, I want this thread to entail everyones opinions on what they consider good ken/mpo training, and any good qualities within their Ken/mpo training experience.

    The faults and McDojo's have been discussed ad nauseam, so none of that here.
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  2. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2007 3:05am


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I trained and eventually got permission to teach something called Ryukai Kenpo. We were told it was entirely Okinawan but subsequent research has made it clear to me that it was probably my teacher's teacher's synthesis of Okinawan karate-kempo, CMA, some kind of aiki and a few bits and pieces from classical bugei.

    There were no belts or uniforms -- just a basic student (or "petitioner") level, an advanced (or actual student) level and the teacher. Training consisted of 3-5 years of conditioning, basic techniques and different kinds of bareknuckle sparring at 50% or more power (though a bit more controlled to the head). After a few years, weight training was mandatory (the instructor was aware of more traditional exercises but thought they were obsolete). After that 3-5 years, forms were introduced -- just 5 of them. I learned 3 at the rate of 1/year, making that 8 years for me. There were a few weapons techniques but they were very sketchily taught. There was also a meditation system and some stuff that is considered "interior" and is basically odd classical ideas.

    By the end of the first 5 years I was in pretty good shape and knew how to hit people, take a fairly hard shot, toss on standing joint locks that apparently never work in real life despite my experience with them, and crapple enough to get by in the pre-UFC world. I participated in two friendly challenge matches. I won one (against a guy who trained in the O.E Simon McDojo system, by leg kick) and lost one (against a judoka -- well several of them:-)

    I taught small groups of people off and on for a few years (never for money) but due to the lack of a paper trail for the lineage I eventually thought better of it. I'm passing it on to my son instead.

    Even though I haven't trained with that original group in a long time I still consider it my base art and I do tend to look at others through its values. I don't mind forms, but as I originally understood them to be an advanced practice that was useless without fundamentals. I never understood the whole "form per belt" mentality. Or belts. Or uniforms. Or, unfortunately, safety gear (gloves and wraps FTW for me, now). I have a specific way of practicing forms now that comes from this, which I think makes them work for me, so I don't mind them when I do other stuff these days.

    All in all it was a positive experience for me. If it hadn't been, I wouldn't be in martial arts now, in my 4th year back after what was mostly a hiatus from doing much of anything. I'd say that there was a way of thinking and breaking down things to bring one's overall game together, the athletic, resistant aspect and the lack of superficial trappings I enjoyed and now look for in anything else I do.
  3. fivestar is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2007 9:05am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kajukenbo & Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As I stated in another thread, a Tracy Kenpo school in my area was the only martial art school that I found for my son that:

    1. Did not require a contract
    2. Did not charge belt testing fees
    3. Has never tried to sell me private lessons, black belt club, secret training, or any of that other bullshido other schools do to ring a parents wallet dry

    So far I am happy I chose this school for my son.
  4. krazy kaju is offline
    krazy kaju's Avatar

    I'm not witty enough for this custom title.

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2007 4:10pm


     Style: In Hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Tracy Kenpo school closest to my house (it's about 15 minutes away) BARELY practiced any actual kenpo so-called 'techniques'. Those were reviewed during private lessons mainly.

    However, the majority of what we learned, in both private and group lessons, were strikes that could generally fall under "Muay Thai" rules... basically elbows, jabs, crosses, knees, kicks (mainly low kicks), etc.

    The main instructor was also a fan of MMA.

    And from what I understand, our main instructor trained previously at the only other Tracy Kenpo school in Michigan, which also does shootfighting and has an amateur MMA team.

    The worst thing about the kenpo dojo I trained at was that we weren't able to spar - the school was relatively new and small, so we didn't have any gloves, headgear, cups, etc. Mainly, we trained striking w/ MMA gloves on Thai pads with partners.
  5. Ke?poFist is online now
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    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2007 4:56pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I like how Pama has completely avoided this thread. I have left him open with a venue to clearly outline his views on what he likes/liked about his Kenpo training. I have prefaced this thread, with a warning to not derail or bash in this thread, but rather discuss the merits of everyones claims. So far we have some good responses, but none from him?

    Pama, thus far on this forum, the only argument you've come up with, as to why Kenpo is good, is because in your mind Ed Parker could kick my ass. Way to have a coherent understanding of the art you practice. What a joke :P
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  6. Jadonblade is offline
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    Hoo Ha!

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    england
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    Posted On:
    10/18/2007 5:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: San Da, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You might be derailing your own thread Kempofist :P. Did a lil research on Kajukenbo and it seems very interesting though, some sources mentioned chinese boxing so I assume they mean san shou/san da or was it an excuse to steal there much cooler forms? :P. But otherwise I might try see if I can get some of that in england.
  7. Christian_ is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2007 7:10pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    I like how Pama has completely avoided this thread. I have left him open with a venue to clearly outline his views on what he likes/liked about his Kenpo training. I have prefaced this thread, with a warning to not derail or bash in this thread, but rather discuss the merits of everyones claims. So far we have some good responses, but none from him?

    Pama, thus far on this forum, the only argument you've come up with, as to why Kenpo is good, is because in your mind Ed Parker could kick my ass. Way to have a coherent understanding of the art you practice. What a joke :P
    That old fart kicking your ass?!?!??! LMAO!!! I've seen bits and pieces of you on throwdown videos, and you seem to handle yourself fine in all the sparring you've done with other members.

    And why do all the kenpo guys worship Ed Parker? It's frekin weird.
  8. Ke?poFist is online now
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    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2007 7:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian_
    That old fart kicking your ass?!?!??! LMAO!!! I've seen bits and pieces of you on throwdown videos, and you seem to handle yourself fine in all the sparring you've done with other members.

    And why do all the kenpo guys worship Ed Parker? It's frekin weird.
    For the record Ed Parker passed away nearly two decades ago. During Kenpo's heyday he was the man to go to. Full contact Karate had sprung up, despite the warnings from the LARPers of those days who claimed that karate moves were too deadly to do full contact, and that everyone who competed would die. Parker's guys were more than willing to step up and fight.

    If you look at old photo's, some guys are often seen wearing checkered uniforms, to denote the fighters of each school.

    This is not saying that they were ultimate badasses, and could beat everyone today, but nonetheless they threw down and put what they learned to the test. Something few are willing to do today, with the advancement of the legality of true open fighting tournaments.
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  9. Christian_ is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/19/2007 5:11pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by krazy kaju
    The Tracy Kenpo school closest to my house (it's about 15 minutes away) BARELY practiced any actual kenpo so-called 'techniques'. Those were reviewed during private lessons mainly.

    However, the majority of what we learned, in both private and group lessons, were strikes that could generally fall under "Muay Thai" rules... basically elbows, jabs, crosses, knees, kicks (mainly low kicks), etc.

    The main instructor was also a fan of MMA.

    And from what I understand, our main instructor trained previously at the only other Tracy Kenpo school in Michigan, which also does shootfighting and has an amateur MMA team.

    The worst thing about the kenpo dojo I trained at was that we weren't able to spar - the school was relatively new and small, so we didn't have any gloves, headgear, cups, etc. Mainly, we trained striking w/ MMA gloves on Thai pads with partners.
    Glad to hear that school worked out for you, are you still training in something now?
  10. praetorian01 is offline

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    Edmonton, AB
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2007 7:45pm


     Style: many; box,TKD,croty,BJJ..

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh yes, a decent non-LARP school of kenpo has some oomph to it. (At least thats the sound I made getting a side kick in the belly, the first time I fought Vernon Groman my instructor.) :lol:
    It was Kanzen Kenpo- the leader was in Ontairio, claimed to trained with Mr. Parker just before he died... Seemed to know his stuff. i had lots of training,so it looked good to me too. But the big boss, he got into some legal crap best we not get into here though, which closed down the schools. . The local guy was right cool though- I miss him lots.

    The standup is tight at its best. Not lots of rediculous stances- you train how you fight. Its not for kids at at at the non-LARP level. Sparring was minimal gear and full contact. You found out quick if you liked it or not. I never got too hurt ever- but I'm pretty big and barrel shaped lol. We did lots of MMA, in fact the guy who taught me is a MMA ref now. They were pretty open minded and didn't make any bones about using BJJ when you hit the ground. What the hell, it worked and avoided Crappling by learning something real. I liked it- shame it closed due to politics, or I'd still be at it. The instructor openly told us not to go to the one school down the road that openned- from what he saw it was still stuck in a mishmash of traditional croty and other oddball stuff mixed and called Kenpo.

    Kicks were low and to the point, nothing too fancy. You hit and just keep going.
    The slap (yourself) thing is supposed to help with speed (you check the outgoing muscle group/ neuron stop signal relay relating to fast twitch muscles to make the motions quick/sharp, also to make it faster for you to send out the next one blah blah). It looks odd, but it works well for me. You could start a post on the science of it if you like with smarter dudes than me to explain it.:headbang:
    Last edited by praetorian01; 10/20/2007 4:50pm at .
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