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  1. wingchundo is offline

    Welterweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    643

    Posted On:
    10/19/2007 10:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Again, to me it comes down to the sparring. My guess is there is little or no sparring in this program, making the instruction virtually useless and exponentially more useless when passed on to future students.

    Rock and roll, man, all I can say is, bring on these new "white" and "blue" belts. It'll be fun choking them senseless at tournies.
  2. gangrelchilde is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lancaster
    Posts
    173

    Posted On:
    10/20/2007 6:45am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleidea
    If you want my serious thoughts on the subject, I can summarize them rather quick. It is ridiculous to hand someone with 0 grappling background a belt and instructorship after 2 weeks. Even an exceptional student could not do this.
    I actually agree with this portion of your post. I think the rest of your comments aren't worth responding to, so I won't.
    Last edited by gangrelchilde; 10/20/2007 7:40am at .
  3. Askari is offline

    The Bottom Brick

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,069

    Posted On:
    10/20/2007 7:06am


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchundo
    Again, to me it comes down to the sparring. My guess is there is little or no sparring in this program, making the instruction virtually useless and exponentially more useless when passed on to future students.
    I'd be incredibly surprised if the Gracie's taught any sort of class with little or no sparring.
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  4. Milquetoast is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    42

    Posted On:
    10/20/2007 9:59am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Xingyi, Silat

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why is a guy with "Tai Chi gymkata" in his style field talking all this trash? He won't even admit what he does. Or he is trying to make it seem like a joke if he really does Tai Chi. Yeah, this program would be a great idea if they didn't hand out a blue belt at the end, but everybody in TMA's (including me) should spend less time waiting for the Gracies to mess up BJJ, and more time training to try to make their arts respectable again.
  5. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Porcupine/Hollywood, FL & Parmistan via Elbonia
    Posts
    11,762

    Posted On:
    10/20/2007 10:02am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleidea
    Judo has 67 throws and 29 Newaza techniques. That's 97 techniques for the math morons like myself. Lets say hypothetically you take 5 throws and 29 newaza techniques, well, that's 34 techniques, I don't see how someone with no grappling experience is going to become proficent in 34 techs in 2 weeks, even under an intense training method.

    Honestly, it sounds a little like Krav Maga.
    I agree with this. I honestly don't know what to expect the Gracies to do with this program.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  6. RobT is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Swansea, Wales
    Posts
    454

    Posted On:
    10/20/2007 10:29am


     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleidea
    Judo has 67 throws and 29 Newaza techniques. That's 97 techniques for the math morons like myself.
    ...and 96 for the people who can actually count!
  7. nobleidea is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    98

    Posted On:
    10/20/2007 12:00pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tai Chi gymkata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ..and 96 for the people who can actually count!
    :laughing4

    Thanks for pointing that out! :laughing4
  8. nobleidea is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    98

    Posted On:
    10/20/2007 12:06pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tai Chi gymkata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with this. I honestly don't know what to expect the Gracies to do with this program.
    I know I come off as being a troll, because to some degree I am. I throw rude comments to get people thinking.

    But, in all seriousness, this is taking a great art, BJJ not Gracie JJ, and turning it into something comical. This hurts the image of BJJ, grappling, MMA, and the martial arts in general.

    I found a similar situation with Moni Aizik. I attended a seminar with Mr. Aizik, it was descent, nothing special. However, afterward he approached several of the students he deemed as "superior" to the rest of the attendees and spoke with us at length about becoming a KKM instructor. When I asked how long it would take, he told me each seminar for a level would be 5 days.

    Now, I ask you, how am I going to become proficient in KM or anything in 5 days? Futhermore, how am I going to teach someone else?

    When I brought up this point, I was quickly dismissed, and told it was because KKM was quick and easy to learn. :eusa_wall
  9. Askari is offline

    The Bottom Brick

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,069

    Posted On:
    10/20/2007 1:14pm


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleidea
    But, in all seriousness, this is taking a great art, BJJ not Gracie JJ, and turning it into something comical. This hurts the image of BJJ, grappling, MMA, and the martial arts in general.
    This doesnt really.

    We've always known that Rorion was primarily interested in getting rich from teaching GJJ.

    This is Mcdojo, but not an inferior product. It doesnt even come close to making people smell dog ****.
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  10. slideyfoot is offline
    slideyfoot's Avatar

    Artemis BJJ Co-Founder/Instructor

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    2,489

    Posted On:
    10/26/2007 5:59am

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I finally got round to listening to the Fightworks Podcast interview with Rener yesterday, where he attempts to answer the three big concerns, among a general discussion of the Gracie Combatives course.

    In response to Caleb's question asking if this could lead to watering down BJJ (his full answer is much longer):

    Quote Originally Posted by Rener
    [...] if we just show them the techniques, and said go for it, go teach, that would be one thing, but if we spend half of the time of the course teaching them the techniques to perfection, and then provided they perfect those techniques, because the ones who don't perfect the techniques won't be able to complete the course, they move on to the second phase of the course which would be the Gracie teaching technologies. Then we spend the whole second phase on teaching them how to present the techniques...its a different level than just showing them the moves and sending them out on their own.
    In response to a question asking if they get a blue belt after the course (again, full response much longer):

    Quote Originally Posted by Rener
    [...] after completing this course, they will qualify for a technical blue belt if everything is perfect. Now, just because they're attending doesn't mean they'll get it, but its within reach for those who qualify
    Then finally, in response to the question of problems the public might have differentiating between Gracie Jiu Jitsu and Gracie Combatives, Rener again mentions that he feels the Gracie Combatives course the new instructors will be teaching is in fact superior to what many BJJ black belts run through in their class (again, the sport vs street argument).

    The overall message I get is that Rener feels that they've developed this course to such a highly specific level that he's confident the product won't get watered down and will result in good self defence training.

    But best thing to do is of course listen to the man himself and draw your own conclusions.

    The talk with Rener is the last of three interviews, taking up the last 22 minutes or so (I think: might have been that it was 22 minutes into the show).
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