More BJJ bullshido - The Gracie Combatives Licensing Program™

**gangrelchilde** · Posted On: 10/19/2007 3:24pm

funny how that's always the answer to being called out for stupidity.

**chingythingy** · Posted On: 10/19/2007 3:58pm

Originally Posted by GoldenJonas

As a BJJ Blue Belt, I feel it is impossible to get enough live rolling mat time in as well as technical proficiency in the basic BJJ Blue Belt curriculum to be a legit BJJ Blue Belt in 10 days absent a very strong grappling background.

Any thoughts? Is this a mark on the otherwise storied Gracie name? Is this the first step toward Gracie Jiu-Jitsu becoming a belt factory?

Discuss.........

In general I don't think the Gracies are a belt factory. They dilute the blue - I've heard plenty of stories of Royce handing out blue belts at seminars from his observations. But it's a lot harder to get a purple from them, and their brown and black belts are legit badasses.

The Gracies have always been after the cash cow though. I remember Rigan at a seminar one time talking about how he used to teach GJJ until his cousin sued him for name copyright stuff. He was still astonished 10 yrs later.

On the Combatives curriculum, of course they aren't legit blue belt level proficiency. One of the guys at our school teaches combatives for the Army, and we go over there to roll with all the trainees. It's a great environment to practice all the submissions you can't get on your classmates. It's like shooting ducks in a barrel, and lots of fun for doing guantlet rolling with the trainees.

And a lot of you LOLBJJBullshidoHAHANutriders posting idiots need to come out of your mom's basement, stop drooling on yourselves, and get some sunlight.

Outside of Roger and Rickson's son Kron, and Renzo doing MMA you really don't have Gracies dominating the world stage in BJJ by any means right now. That's happening by all the "sport" schools. I'll bet you Roger doesn't make that distinction - he just kicks everyone's ass.

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 10/19/2007 4:10pm

You're right, there aren't any Gracies dominating much of anything in regards to MMA. Except the fact that most of the people in MMA are somehow connected to the family via their trainers.

**dig420** · Posted On: 10/19/2007 4:53pm

I can't speak for Renzo and Royce, in fact I DO think Royce hands out blue belts waaaay too fast, but this is Rorion. It takes forever and a day to get a blue belt from Rorion, I know from first-hand experience. I didn't get mine until I could tap just about all the white belts and a number of blue belts. It took about two years, excluding injury time.

As near as I can tell, he's taking a core group of moves (probably kimura, armlock, guillotine etc), drilling them intensively for two weeks and calling that a course in Gracie combatives, rather than GJJ. I never saw the part about giving someone a blue belt just for completing the course, and if he's doing that it's wrong and totally out of character. I don't recall that being in the mailer he sent out.

Anyone who thinks he's handing out bb's just for showing up needs to go to the Academy, I assure you that you are incorrect.

**CNagy** · Posted On: 10/19/2007 5:34pm

I think this is brilliantly subversive. An instructor goes and completes this program to add a ground game to his school. He starts teaching it to his students, ranking them up as he sees fit to White w/ 4 stripes. Gracie Academy Head Instructor comes by to evaluate the students for a Blue belt, and either finds them lacking or, surprisingly, qualified for the "technical" blue belt.

The student fails:
"You are almost there. I'll be back this way in six months, but there is a Gracie Jiu-jitsu instructor not far from here, you could get ranked much sooner by him if you trained there."

The student passes:
"Congratulations, you have a technical blue belt. This is as high as you can progress here, but there is a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu instructor not far from here if you want to continue."

Anyone who learns from an instructor of this program might be inclined to seek out some form of jiu-jitsu, which is a good way to round out one's training.

**nobleidea** · Posted On: 10/19/2007 6:47pm

funny how that's always the answer to being called out for stupidity.

Well then, what's your answer?

I don't take this **** as seriously as the rest of the people here because this **** has little consequence in the rest of life. Ask the average ass monkey about bullshido, BJJ, or MMA and they'll look at you like you are from Mars.

This is entertainment and most of you are Larp'r trolls and you know it. So, STFU and enjoy the fun.

If you want my serious thoughts on the subject, I can summarize them rather quick. It is ridiculous to hand someone with 0 grappling background a belt and instructorship after 2 weeks. Even an exceptional student could not do this. And BJJ will be nothing more than TKD-like in 30 years. And that actually makes me quite sad, because it is a good art.

**Tom Kagan** · Posted On: 10/19/2007 9:23pm

Djchangster's thread derail regarding a Shuai Jiao practitioner being able to become proficient in BJJ/GJJ by reading a book went here:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61554

**jtkarate** · Posted On: 10/19/2007 9:50pm

Originally Posted by Kung-Fu Joe

I'm going to go ahead and say "No" to this.

However, I'll also argue that this class has a different purpose than that.

The Combatives course is not meant to be a replacement for good Jiu-Jitsu training. It's not even designed to be a thorough Jiu-Jitsu course. It seems to me the purpose of the course is solely to introduce a few basic concepts of grappling into other martial programs. I don't think the Combatives course is pretending to do anything besides teaching basic techniques.

if all they want to do is teach the basics then they should reduce the number of techniques that they offer from 34 to maybe 20.

that way you would still be able to learn them properly and have time to pressure test them .

Also you would then be better able to teach them to the students that you are supposed to be able to rank up to 4th stripe.

**Askari** · Posted On: 10/19/2007 10:18pm

Anyone have a list of the 34 techniques?

**nobleidea** · Posted On: 10/19/2007 10:37pm

Judo has 67 throws and 29 Newaza techniques. That's 97 techniques for the math morons like myself. Lets say hypothetically you take 5 throws and 29 newaza techniques, well, that's 34 techniques, I don't see how someone with no grappling experience is going to become proficent in 34 techs in 2 weeks, even under an intense training method.

Honestly, it sounds a little like Krav Maga.