More BJJ bullshido - The Gracie Combatives Licensing Program™

**Pandinha** · Posted On: 10/17/2007 7:44am

Originally Posted by slideyfoot

On the main page, the testimonial a little way down mentions:

The proviso on being "proficient in fight simulation" may be mitigating, if that means the student has to perform at a blue belt level in sparring before they get a blue belt, rather than as some kind of automatic certification after completing the course.

Similarly, there's a section that reads:

Thanks for that. I'm wondering if the certification for blue is for Gracie Combatives vs Gracie Jiu Jitsu. It certainly reads that way.

I will call Gracie Torrance today to find out.

**MSphinx** · Posted On: 10/17/2007 8:12am

Originally Posted by slideyfoot

On the main page, the testimonial a little way down mentions:

The proviso on being "proficient in fight simulation" may be mitigating, if that means the student has to perform at a blue belt level in sparring before they get a blue belt, rather than as some kind of automatic certification after completing the course.

Similarly, there's a section that reads:

"Fight simulation" is described as "a series of drills". I wonder if the testing has any aliveness?

**Askari** · Posted On: 10/17/2007 8:50am

How many hours of instruction are being offered?

If it is in the neighborhood of 80 hours over the 2 weeks this is the norm for military combative instructor certifications.

The sales pitch is a bit over the top, but that is also the norm.

**wingchundo** · Posted On: 10/17/2007 8:32pm

Even at 80 hours, that is the equivalent of, say, 14 weeks of BJJ class at six hours a week.

I've done a little more than double that and I barely have my white belt with stripes and I'm nowhere near ready to start teaching anyone anything other than the BJJ tournament point system, much less qualified for a blue belt. Now, I'm no phenom, obviously, but still. 80 hours seems a bit light.

***Cassius*** · Posted On: 10/17/2007 8:47pm

This is most likely the Gracie attempt at cashing in on Modern Army Combatives by marketing them to the civilian population. Color me not surprised.

**musicalmike235** · Posted On: 10/17/2007 10:24pm

...
Get Certified to Teach in 2 Weeks

No Previous Grappling Experience
...

That description sounds like the definition of a McDojo. *Shudder*

**datdamnmachine** · Posted On: 10/18/2007 1:15am

Originally Posted by Cassius

This is most likely the Gracie attempt at cashing in on Modern Army Combatives by marketing them to the civilian population. Color me not surprised.

I think that sums it up, cashing in on Army Combatives and what not. It seems specifically worded to imply that you have to be able to be at blue belt level to receive a blue belt but that the certification is separate and you just need to complete the required training.

Also, I didn't know about the 1 month thing with Speed Jiu-Jitsu. I actually have that tape and thought the concepts were interesting. Unfortunately, the production was garbage and the techniques didn't have any logical flow to them.

**Kung-Fu Joe** · Posted On: 10/18/2007 7:50am

I think the connection between the Combatives Techniques and the Blue Belt is actually intentionally misleading on the part of the advertisers.

If you notice, the ad doesn't say, "When you complete the course, you are awarded a Blue Belt." What it says is, "When you've perfected the 34 Combatives techniques, you'll be awarded your Blue Belt." That's a very different thing.

Now, 34 techniques is well over the "minimum number" of techniques that Royler and Renzo listed as being required for a Blue Belt in their book, Essential Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. But, as everyone knows, it takes a lot more than just knowing the techniques to have perfected them. Knowing the technique and knowing how and when to use the technique are entirely separate concepts.

It looks to me like the Combatives Certification is similarly separate from a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Blue Belt. The ad doesn't come right out and say as much because more people will join if they think they're actually becoming good at BJJ after two weeks of training (intensive, though it may be).

--Joe

**Jadonblade** · Posted On: 10/18/2007 8:11am

They may be very clever in a bastard way, you only get the belt if you perfect the techniques. So basically you fail the exam and they get their money. Thus the art remains undiluted and they remain rich. If you pass the exam then your a born natural and may even deserve it.

**M1K3** · Posted On: 10/18/2007 8:14am

Two comments, does anyone have a list of the 34 techniques and could you post it please? Second, there is a big difference between 80 hours of continuous training over 2 weeks and 80 hours of intermittent training over 14 + weeks. I am not saying you would necessarily be a blue belt but your skills would be a lot better than you would think. Also this is not competition level jiu-jitsu.