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  1. theword is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/16/2007 10:59pm


     Style: boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by golsa
    Boxing does drill bob & weave more than MT, but MT fights will be much more like SD situations than boxing matches imo because knees and elbows come in real life.
    I'm far from an expert, but is this really true? I've seen a my fair share of youtube fight clips and the only knees or elbows I ever really saw were shitty and poorly thrown. Most of the time it looks like two guys winging arm punches at one another while they lean their heads slightly back and stick their chin out. Which looks to me like bad boxing more then anything else (boxing in the sense that all they are doing is throwing punches). The MT clinch however I would totally agree with and I think that would have kick ass application in a SD situation.
      #21
  2. ViciousFlamingo is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/16/2007 11:08pm


     Style: BJJ & Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by theword
    I'm far from an expert, but is this really true? I've seen a my fair share of youtube fight clips and the only knees or elbows I ever really saw were shitty and poorly thrown. Most of the time it looks like two guys winging arm punches at one another while they lean their heads slightly back and stick their chin out. Which looks to me like bad boxing more then anything else (boxing in the sense that all they are doing is throwing punches). The MT clinch however I would totally agree with and I think that would have kick ass application in a SD situation.
    I'm not going to discuss because self-defense applications of elbows and knees because that has been done to death already, but I just want to point out you're making a poor argument. Most youtube fight clips are between untrained retards. You don't see too many clips of one guy getting the crap slammed out of him when the other guy does a double leg and cuts the corner, does that mean a double leg won't work in a street fight? What about guillotines? What about jabs? The fighters involved have as much if not more to do with what techniques are used than the environment of being on the street.
    Last edited by ViciousFlamingo; 10/16/2007 11:13pm at .
      #22
  3. golsa is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/16/2007 11:38pm


     Style: sport Aikido & Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by theword
    I'm far from an expert, but is this really true? I've seen a my fair share of youtube fight clips and the only knees or elbows I ever really saw were shitty and poorly thrown. Most of the time it looks like two guys winging arm punches at one another while they lean their heads slightly back and stick their chin out. Which looks to me like bad boxing more then anything else (boxing in the sense that all they are doing is throwing punches). The MT clinch however I would totally agree with and I think that would have kick ass application in a SD situation.
    haha I see where you're coming from, and you're right about the way your random person fights. I just meant that, as far as combat sport striking arts go, MT is going to be more like rl than pretty much anything else because it allows things you can't do in most sports.
      #23
  4. oversteer is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/16/2007 11:47pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Muay Thai / Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ergo
    I'm thinking that blocking is synonymous with parrying (in the English language), but apparently that's not the case. So yeah, it seems I'm actually talking about parrying.
    Yeah, ignore me, I'd had a few beers after work when I went into that little rant. Now that I read it again, it's really quite badly written and doesn't make a lot of sense.

    But still, when someone says "block", I tend to think of this:

    http://www.ehow.com/how_10650_perform-upper-block.html

    Or this, which I find fucking hilarious btw:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy0Y1AQOq3Y

    I know it's arguing semantics, but to me, a block means putting something solid in the way of a blow - like that karate dude's forearm in the way of a low kick (punch?) - whereas parrying is more redirecting the opponents force, like a boxing parry. Maybe in fencing they mean the same thing. I'm not a fencer.
      #24
  5. feedback is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/17/2007 12:52am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When you get better at it you'll see how covering can be applied in self-defense situations. I do a half cover/crazy monkey combination where I spike their punches with elbows, I've gotten to the point where I can reliably hit their fists with my elbows 1/3 punches.
    Tough is not how you act, tough is how you train.
      #25
  6. theword is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/17/2007 3:01am


     Style: boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ViciousFlamingo
    I'm not going to discuss because self-defense applications of elbows and knees because that has been done to death already, but I just want to point out you're making a poor argument. Most youtube fight clips are between untrained retards. You don't see too many clips of one guy getting the crap slammed out of him when the other guy does a double leg and cuts the corner, does that mean a double leg won't work in a street fight? What about guillotines? What about jabs? The fighters involved have as much if not more to do with what techniques are used than the environment of being on the street.
    Okay, I think I see where the confusion lay. I was actually refering to the validity of this statement:

    --------------------------------
    Originally Posted by golsa
    Boxing does drill bob & weave more than MT, but MT fights will be much more like SD situations than boxing matches imo because knees and elbows come in real life
    -------------------------------


    I took the above qoute to mean that knees and elbows are often thrown in a street fight by untrained 'thugs' with accuracy and power. Of the few fights I've witnessed in real life and those I've seen on the internet, I haven't seen knees and elbows used often or well. Ussually you see that sloppy haymaker arm punching windmill thing while they lean their heads back. I was not speaking to the effectiveness of a a trained fighter throwing knees and elbows in a street fight. Of course I believe that a double leg, a knee, elbow etc. thrown by a trained fighter will have great results in any fight. I was simply arguing a point about how prevalent knee and elbow strikes are in a typical SD situation where someone on the street, or as Golsa puts it 'real life', is attacking you.
      #26
  7. Khun Kao is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2007 12:58pm


     Style: MuayThai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know I'm backtracking a bit, but the two techniques you learned to defend against a straight punch and a hook are not just a "block" or a way to "cover". When you FIRST learn to apply them, "yes", you are only going to block/cover with them. But as you gain experience, these two techniques become an attack.

    Vs. the Straight Punch = Len Muay ("play with your hair"). The palm is placed on the forehead above your eyebrow on the same side, the elbow should be pointing straight forward towards the attack. As you get experience and have some timing, you will learn to point the elbow directly into the incoming attack, or redirect the attack (ala parrying) into the elbow

    Vs. the Hook = Taad Mala ("place a flower behind your ear"). Cover your ear with the palm of your hand so that your fingers curl around the back of your head. Keep the arm tight to the side of your head so that the elbow is actually covering that side of your face. At first, this is the technique used just to cover from an attack, but again, as you gain experience you will begin finding opportunities to point the elbow out into the oncoming attack.

    Both of the above "Defenses" can also be turned into an offensive tactic by stepping forward and using the elbow to "spike" into your opponent face, chest, or extremeties.

    (others' have already run over alternate methods of defense which will be taught in MuayThai)
      #27
  8. ergo is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/19/2007 2:07pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Khun Kao
    Vs. the Straight Punch = Len Muay ("play with your hair"). The palm is placed on the forehead above your eyebrow on the same side, the elbow should be pointing straight forward towards the attack. As you get experience and have some timing, you will learn to point the elbow directly into the incoming attack, or redirect the attack (ala parrying) into the elbow
    I'm not sure I follow. I can't properly point my elbow towards the opponent unless I bend it next to my head, and then it becomes "Taad Mala."
      #28
  9. feedback is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/20/2007 1:13am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think he's talking about the Old-school crazy monkey (we don't do it like that anymore) where you run your fingers back through your hair to get the elbow up high enough. I prefer to just shell and use a modified hook defense.
    Tough is not how you act, tough is how you train.
      #29
  10. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2007 4:35am


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ergo
    I'm not thinking about quitting MT or anything. I'm just asking in case it turns out that I won't learn anything better. I'm assuming that there won't be two blocks for the same attack. But yeah, we haven't covered everything yet.


    What about slipping a straight punch? Would that be dangerous in MT? I'm mainly interested in slipping straight punches and doing boxing-style blocks against hooks.
    Why do you think the blocks you were taught won't work without gloves? Try punching into someone's elbow once and you'll realize just how good it works.

    I use the crazy monkey defense most of the time myself, along with parries. I'm not much good at slipping even though I also do boxing.

    The problem with learning boxing defenses is that they take a really long time to develop. I'll give you a typical boxing response to a jab. You slip to your right, and as the guy is pulling back his punching arm, and the arm is bent, you throw a right straight or a hook, through that "window" into the side of his head.

    What do you think the chances are, of pulling something like that off? For me, it's really really low, if not near impossible.

    Your best bet for self defense and even in ring fights is the CM defense, gets you confident and good at head defense really fast. When someone is punching, they leave something else open. Counter with a left kick to their torso, an inner leg kick, or step off 45 degree and low kick their legs. Or teep them as they come in. Or if they're really pressing in, slip one arm over their neck, then the other arm, and knee them.

    Another very reliable defense against getting punched, is just to circle off to your right. Sounds very simple, but works very well.

    I don't think boxing type defenses work very well for MT because when you slip the punches, your weight is shifted left or right. Which sets you up real nice for your opponent to give you a low kick. What the thais do use, is they lean back, and either throw a teep, or lean back and come back with a right cross.
      #30
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