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  1. ergo is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 11:47am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Blocking punches in Muay Thai

    I've been going to a MT gym for several weeks now, and today we learned how to block straight punches and hooks. A straight punch is blocked by pressing your glove against your forehead, with your palm pointing at you. Hooks are blocked by pressing your glove against the side of your head, with your elbow pointing towards the opponent, and slightly inwards (or so).

    I suppose these are fine in the context of MT, but they're suicide in a self-defense situation, where nobody is wearing big boxing gloves. I train for SD and not competitions, so that's kind of a big deal to me. I was thinking of learning some boxing next year, but I'm wondering what most instructors would think about someone incorporating boxing techniques into sparring. Is that generally accepted, or is there some reason why you shouldn't use boxing-style blocks and evasions in MT?
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  2. WhiteShark is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 12:25pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "I've been going to a MT gym for several WEEKS now"

    Stick with it and see if that is the only block you learn (it won't be) or if you just can't wait ask your coach.
      #2
  3. DarkXacreD is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 12:36pm


     Style: Muay Thai/MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    modern muay thai is basically boxing with elbows, knees, and kicks. The only reason you shouldn't slip or bob'n'weave in muay thai is because you're not just dealing with two hands; if you duck away from a punch, you're open to everything else. Unless of course, you've got the guy so confused or scared that he wouldn't dare follow up his punches with a kick or two. Like that Randy Couture vs. Tim Silvia fight.
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  4. ergo is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 1:15pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark
    "I've been going to a MT gym for several WEEKS now"

    Stick with it and see if that is the only block you learn (it won't be) or if you just can't wait ask your coach.
    I'm not thinking about quitting MT or anything. I'm just asking in case it turns out that I won't learn anything better. I'm assuming that there won't be two blocks for the same attack. But yeah, we haven't covered everything yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkXacreD
    modern muay thai is basically boxing with elbows, knees, and kicks. The only reason you shouldn't slip or bob'n'weave in muay thai is because you're not just dealing with two hands; if you duck away from a punch, you're open to everything else. Unless of course, you've got the guy so confused or scared that he wouldn't dare follow up his punches with a kick or two. Like that Randy Couture vs. Tim Silvia fight.
    What about slipping a straight punch? Would that be dangerous in MT? I'm mainly interested in slipping straight punches and doing boxing-style blocks against hooks.
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  5. Fitz is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 1:17pm


     Style: Judo, Tomiki Aikido, ??

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ergo

    I suppose these are fine in the context of MT, but they're suicide in a self-defense situation, where nobody is wearing big boxing gloves.
    Why do you think so?
      #5
  6. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 1:20pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Slipping punches is alot harder when your opponent can clinch. Sounds like you are not learning blocking but learning how to cover. It as the same I learned in Krav for boxing.

    I don't really know what you expect. Care to eloaborate on how you think you should be blocking?
      #6
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 1:41pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ergo
    I've been going to a MT gym for several weeks now, and today we learned how to block straight punches and hooks. A straight punch is blocked by pressing your glove against your forehead, with your palm pointing at you. Hooks are blocked by pressing your glove against the side of your head, with your elbow pointing towards the opponent, and slightly inwards (or so).

    I suppose these are fine in the context of MT, but they're suicide in a self-defense situation, where nobody is wearing big boxing gloves. I train for SD and not competitions, so that's kind of a big deal to me. I was thinking of learning some boxing next year, but I'm wondering what most instructors would think about someone incorporating boxing techniques into sparring. Is that generally accepted, or is there some reason why you shouldn't use boxing-style blocks and evasions in MT?
    You have only a few weeks of training, so unless you have some other background in striking, I'm not sure how you can be qualified to make that type of statement. SD training is not about focusing on fighting bareknuckle or knowing how to block/deal with bareknuckle punches. It's a lot more than that. In fact, I'd dare to say that the SD component that deals with physical encounters comes second to other components (such as awareness and common sense.)

    Also, if you can't learn how to deal with someone wearing gloves, how could you possibly expect to know how to deal with someone that doesn't have them?

    Actually, flip the coin and see the other side of this argument as follows:

    If you can deal with someone that knows how to punch/kick and move to get a good chance to punch/kick you (even if he wears gloves), wouldn't that also translate to skills that will allow you to deal with the average Joe Bar-tard who can't punch for ****, has no conditioning in his hands at all, can't put his weight behind his punches, and doesn't know how to move his feet at all and close his distance, but instead remains flat-footed, with his chin out almost like a sign that reads "clock me"?

    Those are the skills you want if you want real SD.

    Muay Thai (just as Judo, which is in your style field) are not SD courses, but martial arts and sports with SD applications - applications that become more and more self-evidence as you put enough time to be efficient in them.

    You are not going to learn all the things you think you should (.ie. blocking, parrying and footwork) in a mere weeks, be it in MT or boxing. As a matter of fact, you will not learn anything to the point of being proficient in a mere weeks, at least not unless your opponent is substantially weaker (physically) than you.

    There are no shortcuts in martial arts/combat sports nor SD training.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 10/15/2007 1:51pm at .
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  8. ergo is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 1:48pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz
    Why do you think so?
    Your hand covers a much smaller area without a glove, and since your opponent isn't wearing gloves either, his hand has an even easier time getting past your defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl
    Slipping punches is alot harder when your opponent can clinch. Sounds like you are not learning blocking but learning how to cover. It as the same I learned in Krav for boxing.
    Good point. It seems I may have made this thread prematurely, but I was under the impression that the technique we were learning was blocking, not covering.

    If we were just covering, what kind of a blocking technique can I expect to learn?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    You have only a few weeks of training, so unless you have some other background in striking, I'm not sure how you can be qualified to make that type of statement.
    I know the basics of boxing. But really, it's kinda obvious that it wouldn't work well without gloves.

    Also, if you can't learn how to deal with someone wearing gloves, how could you possibly expect to know how to deal with someone that doesn't have them?
    My point is that the technique works when gloves are involved, but doesn't work when they aren't involved. Or at least doesn't work well enough.

    Muay Thai (just as Judo, which is in your style field) are not SD courses, but martial arts and sports with SD applications - applications that become more and more self-evidence as you put enough time to be efficient in them.
    I know that.

    You are not going to learn all the things you think you should (.ie. blocking, parrying and footwork) in a mere weeks, be it in MT or boxing. As a matter of fact, you will not learn anything to the point of being proficient in a mere weeks, at least not unless your opponent is substantially weaker (physically) than you.
    I'm not expecting to become The Chosen One in a few weeks, and that's not what this is about. I was just concerned that the (apparent) block I was learning would be unsuitable for fighting without gloves. As you said yourself, MT isn't a self-defense course.
    Last edited by ergo; 10/15/2007 1:58pm at .
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  9. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 2:43pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good point. It seems I may have made this thread prematurely, but I was under the impression that the technique we were learning was blocking, not covering.

    If we were just covering, what kind of a blocking technique can I expect to learn?
    Honestly, I can't imagine anything like blocking punches in MT. You parry punches or redirect them, but there is nothing I know of similar to karate blocks.

    Since punches are often used to set up kicks, you don't want to have your hands to far from your body. One thing I like to do in sparring is throw a hook and a same side roundhouse kick. People can cover for both effectively, but if they try to reach out and parry my hook, their ribs are often exposed.

    We call the kind of covering you describe "shelling", you learn how to take punishment (to your arms) and stay in the fight. The type of covering you describe allows you to protect your vital areas while maintaining focus on your opponent. You burst out from there. Coming from a juo background this may sound strange since delaying and covering is grounds for a penalty (stalling). Sometimes in MT you just need to cover and weather out the storm unti lyou get your chance.
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  10. ergo is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 3:10pm


     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl
    Honestly, I can't imagine anything like blocking punches in MT. You parry punches or redirect them, but there is nothing I know of similar to karate blocks.

    Since punches are often used to set up kicks, you don't want to have your hands to far from your body. One thing I like to do in sparring is throw a hook and a same side roundhouse kick. People can cover for both effectively, but if they try to reach out and parry my hook, their ribs are often exposed.

    We call the kind of covering you describe "shelling", you learn how to take punishment (to your arms) and stay in the fight. The type of covering you describe allows you to protect your vital areas while maintaining focus on your opponent. You burst out from there. Coming from a juo background this may sound strange since delaying and covering is grounds for a penalty (stalling). Sometimes in MT you just need to cover and weather out the storm unti lyou get your chance.
    Ah, I see. So, aside from covering your head, what kind of defenses does MT have against straight punches?
      #10
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