10/21/2003 7:07pm, #11
"You should notice an increase in size of your knuckles as months go by with diligent effort."
To me this is a sign of damage. I don't mind my muscles getting bigger, but when my bones start changing size and shape I get nervous. I've seen videos with ancient masters with big gnarly knuckles. I'm sure their fine for hitting stuff, but can they play the piano?
To me "conditioning" your knuckles is a losing proposition. If you hit a guy full force in the jaw or the forehead, you hand is likely to break no matter what you do.
10/21/2003 7:19pm, #12
Why, for the love of all that is holy, would you want to condition your knuckles in the first place?
Trust me, if and when you fight, whether or not your knuckles are conditioned will not make any difference whatsoever. So why the hell would you want to damage your hands?
For the purposes of punching, strengthening the wrists is a hell of a lot more important.You say what about my rice?
10/21/2003 8:14pm, #13
AMEN.Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
10/21/2003 11:19pm, #14
Actually, when I FIRST started martial arts, I found that I could only hit a bag a couple of times before my hands were in unbearable pain. Now, there are three possible explanations for this:
1) I am/was a greatly unfathomable *****.
2) I wasn't punching right (which, while probably true, the pain was in my knuckles)
3) I was being a retard and was punching bare knuckled.
4) My vagina-hands weren't accustomed to the impact and actually were weaker than someone who's used to striking things.
Obviously in a real fight you won't be wearing gloves (and hopefully you're not one of those neanderthals that still *condescending fag-chuckle* prefers to strike), but if you're still in that fantastical newbie stage where hitting things hurts your hands, there's nothing you can gain from smashing Bloodsport-esqe lead balls that you can't gain from hitting a traditional target (such as a punching bag, focus mitts, makiwara, whatever).
10/22/2003 1:04am, #15
the little knucle on the end snaps easily, i found that out the hard way :PCLICK THE ADDS ROMO!
This chapter will also show clips from a high-speed video in which Master Bristol conceals a Swiss Army Knife inside his buttocks. -from "The Magicians Code" by Hans Bristol
10/22/2003 1:19am, #16
"Unfathomable *****" is an extremely loaded phrase.Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
10/22/2003 7:42am, #17DRDGuest
First, I totally agree with things like, be very sure you are punching properly aligned, knuckle push-ups and so on, but to address your question.
We take a standard canvas heavy bag and hang it higher than normal. You will see where the filling has settled to the bottom. To work the bag, hit it high where it is a mid range hard texture, and to toughen the first two striking knuckles, hit it near the bottom.
It will be very very hard, and the canvas helps against the bare skin of the hands also.
On the fist to jaw,or cheek, just a quick real story.
I hate that this involved my own kids, a nidan and a second brown, but it did and it happened last Friday night after the high school game.
Something led up to a heated verbal exchange and the 26 year old nidan, pushed the 16 year old too far.
The 16 year old swung in a linear manner, employing proper punch through, and the result is a broken orbital bone and possible permanent damage to the facial nerve controlling feeling to the cheek, lips, teeth, gums.
An important part is where the 16 year old was stunned that what happened here is not what happens when he see's wild blows being thrown in school when they fight. A properly executed punch, with grounding, tight fist, punch through the target, striking knuckles and so on, is a deadly thing.
This was a bullet dodged because it could have been felony battery, but the real damage was in knowing what he had done to his brother over words.
Literally, a split second can change a lifetime. On a positive note, the Nidan who I would have expected to clean the street with the younger brother, received the bone breaking blow, kept his feet, and kept his head without responding in kind.
He had every right too, but had that instantaneous thought of hurting his little brother for real. I was as proud of that control as I was dissapointed at the blow over words.
10/22/2003 7:52am, #18
Your wrists need more conditioning than your knuckles.
If you are going to condition something, make it your wrists.
Makiwara training can cause alot of damage, if done wrong like most do.
Bag work is best.
Try to get a good bag, leather or vinyl, if you use canvas, make sure you either wrap your hands or use gloves.
Knuckle push ups are fine, better than pounding them against something with NO give.
Hitting something hard does NOT make you hit harder.
Think about how long you want to do MA, and how long you want to be able to use your hands.
Towards the end Mas Oyama's hands were so fucked up, he could hardly close them and had to sleep with them OUTSIDE the sheets beacuse the rubing of the sheets would bother his hands ( from Robert Smith's Martial Musings).
10/22/2003 3:07pm, #19
- Join Date
- Aug 2002
Punching a bag filled with SMALL Steel Shot isnt as bad as ppl here are making it out to be . the Shot moves about inside the bag , and its not like youre hitting a Steel Brick or anything .
There is one for Sale , and its admittedly pretty "Old-School" , but you arent supposed to hit it with Full Intent , the Idea is to Percussively whack your Fist against it to toughen it up , not Deliver Full-Body-Powered Strikes into the Thing .
I WILL say that it takes a WHILE to get to a Place where you would even really Need this sirt of thing to Advance any , so there are PLENTY of WONDERFUL Suggestions in this Topic already for getting to that Place .
10/22/2003 11:39pm, #20
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
- Central Florida
- Extreme Ukemi
I thought this was a good idea
I thought I had a pretty good idea for being able to hit SOMETHING. The makiwara idea never appealed to me though.
I got a few of those blue yoga bricks they sell at wal-mart, and some of that blue poster putty. I stuck the bricks to the wall with the putty. There's some give to the bricks, and it's certainly better than hitting a wall. I've got the best results using them for almost isometric excercises, lining up a punch/elbow and using legs/torso/arm to really push into it.
Also, doing the "push against the bricks" thing has made me correct a few alignment issues I have, so it's seemed worth it so far.