Choy Li Fut

**Permalost** · Posted On: 10/13/2007 6:43pm

The grappling is basically submission grappling. In the beginning, it starts from the knees, and focuses on positional dominance (nothing "Chinese" per se- mount, guard, rear mount, side control, scarf, modified scarf, north south; with standard submissions). No shuai jiao, but the moving step push hands is similar, but without gripping the shirt before throws and no sacrifice throws. I know some of the instructors and students compete in sub grappling tournaments.

**iamgian** · Posted On: 10/14/2007 1:24am

Sounds like the schools are worth giving out a try. I'm gonna go as soon as I get the chance! Do you know how much they generally charge (in the SD area at least)

**metalforlunch** · Posted On: 10/14/2007 12:52pm

Not to high jack this thread, but I'm looking for something similar in Connecticut, it's at a place called Tat Wong's Kung Fu academy, they teach Choy Li Fut and Sanshou. Apparently they have a couple schools on the west coast as well as out by me. Have you guys heard or experienced anything from them?

**iamgian** · Posted On: 10/14/2007 3:41pm

They've got a nice webpage! I haven't heard anything bad about Tat Wong either, but I've heard some people don't really have much respect for Doc Fai Wong. But I'm going to check it out soon, hopefully.

Anybody know if the White Dragon schools have the characteristics of a McDojo?

**SuperGuido** · Posted On: 10/14/2007 4:20pm

Hey Codos,

I went to White Dragon about 4-5 years ago, and the closest thing they had to grappling was a "Chin Na" class once a week. There was no MMA/San Da program either.

When did they start these programs? Also, out of curiosity, what are the grappling qualifications/experience of the instructors?

Hell, if they'd had these programs when I was there, I probably wouldn't have left.

**Jack Rusher** · Posted On: 10/14/2007 5:25pm

Originally Posted by metalforlunch

Tat Wong [...] Have you guys heard or experienced anything from them?

I know and like Tat-Mau Wong. He's a good sifu who has produced a number of solid standup fighters. Also, he has Gao Mei-Jian, a former All-China sanshou champion and then coach of China's National San Shou Team, on the payroll. I don't know anything about the Connecticut branch, but the SF one is solid, though -- so far as I know -- he hasn't embraced groundfighting and MMA to the same extent as some other combat-oriented sifus.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 10/15/2007 3:24pm

Originally Posted by Satori

Hey Codos,

I went to White Dragon about 4-5 years ago, and the closest thing they had to grappling was a "Chin Na" class once a week. There was no MMA/San Da program either.

When did they start these programs? Also, out of curiosity, what are the grappling qualifications/experience of the instructors?

Hell, if they'd had these programs when I was there, I probably wouldn't have left.

The grappling is maybe three years old. The chin na is still a separate class more similar to JJJ (not the grappling class). As for the qualifications, I'm not exactly sure where/how the sifus picked up the grappling aspects, but they have done well in competition and it resembles the submission grappling you would find elsewhere (I've seen everything taught almost the exact same way by a judo instructor, with a few small differences in side control and shrimping). Apparently the curriculum was a long time in the making. I was considering leaving around the time they started getting into grappling and that made me stay (yet here I am now almost never grappling).
The san da program hasn't officially started yet, but the idea is basically combining continuous sparring with moving step and a couple other things (for example, reaps are not seen in moving step but are part of the san da).

On to Tat Wong- you can find some of his videos on Youtube. It looks like he's very into the fighting aspects of kung fu and is way into sanshou, which is good in my book. I've heard of bickering between the Tat Wong people and Doc Fai Wong people, but I've avoided the arguments like the plague.

Anybody know if the White Dragon schools have the characteristics of a McDojo?

Yeah, but you'll find this at lots of TMA schools in the area. There's lots of forms (hung sing choy li fut has tons of forms as part of the system), point sparring, colored ranks, contracts, kids classes etc. If you're looking for a MMA gym, I wouldn't recommend it; there's lots of better places for pure MMA. If you're looking for a kung fu school and you'd also like to grapple and spar, its on par with the other San Diego kung fu schools I've seen. I've sparred/trained with people from other kung fu schools and have found my training to be at least on par with them. I'm speaking of Golden Dragon, the Jing Institute, Sojourn Past (I think its called), United Studios (the horror), and Escondido Kung Fu/Tai Chi. I don't know about the Preying Mantis guys in Balboa Park, but they look pretty good. I also don't know much about the White Tiger place.

**SuperGuido** · Posted On: 10/15/2007 6:54pm

In defense of White Dragon, they only charged $90 a month for unlimited classes, one private a week (30 minutes), and free "Chin Na" classes. I had no start-up fee, and the chief instructor (George Estrada) was extremely understanding and worked with my limited budget.

To compare, USSD across the street charged $150 a month for 2 classes a week, one private a week (30 minutes), and a $200 start up fee.

In addition, there are DOZENS of instructors for each location. So, if you don't like your private instructor (you'll be assigned someone for your privates), you can always get another instructor and not have to leave the school. If you sign up at USSD and find out the instructor there is an asshat...you're screwed.

So, if you take a free class and enjoy it, I say go for it.

**iamgian** · Posted On: 10/15/2007 8:21pm

Wow 90 bucks a month?! That's so much cheaper than my little brother in law's classes. He's in USSD and he's already gonna get his yellow belt and he's only been there for a month. They charge him about 250 dollars a month. He gets 4 classes a week and one private though, which is I guess a little better.

But now that I've got a bit more information from people who've been in the schools, I feel a little more confident about not being cheaped out by an uber McDojo.