SCARS and San Soo

**Perfection** · Posted On: 10/30/2003 4:14pm

How did you all deal with disarming with multi opponents and what were some of the techniques you utilized while in the vehicles?

I don't agree with all of the SCARS training methods, but Jerry Peterson is hands down the number one gun disarm expert on the planet. For simplicity, effectiveness and scientific protocol he nailed it.

Sincerely,

Ken

**Rigante** · Posted On: 10/31/2003 11:47am

Its rather difficult to describe in words but I will try.

Regarding muliple armed lets say two armed with handguns facing you the principle is to disarm one attacker and use him as a shield against the other. So if there are two attackers facing you, if you decide to go for the attacker on the left then you would step outside his rt hand (assuming he is holding it in right. You precede with arm bar type elbow break but make sure his body is btw you and attacker no2.
The difference here is that you dont break his arm and take him to the ground as you typically would. In fact you want to grab his gun hand quickly as you dont want him to drop the gun from the pain. So at this point you actually mirror his gun grip and insert your finger in the guard and twisting his rt wrist (like what I would call a simple wrist lock, begin firing at attacker no 2. Next step is to procede to turn the firearm into attacker no 1 and continue firing the weapon. It is important that you keep attacker no1 between you and no2 during this time. This is where live firing weapons really pay off as you know if you are getting shot and whether they. Obviously this is very, very risky but you might be surprised how often it works. Usually No2 ends up trying to run in circles around his partner trying to get you to shoot. If they are really playing baddass they just shoot there partner but just go down with him and you still have some shielding here.

Regarding the car the techniques depend upon which seat the attacker is in. It is easiest if they are on the front passager seat side. Its actually amazing easy to immobilize there gun arm in the tight confines of a vehicle since they cant pull back and away very easily. In a tight environment like this elbow, eye gouges and neck compression are usefull, although just bangng their cranium against the side window pillar is pretty nice to. Incidently the worst place for them to sit is the seat rt behind you. The key in these is properly immobilizing the gun hand and keeping the muzzle away. These difficult scenarios really are done best with a real gun with light loads and soft bullets as this is the only way you can tell where the fired rounds are striking,because they should be trying to shoot you when you practice these techniques. Its also not uncommon to see people who can disarm a plastic gun well, panic and freak when facing a real firearm. Howver this involves following strict safety procedures or you could end up with an unfortunate accident.

**HAPKO3** · Posted On: 10/31/2003 12:41pm

Originally posted by Perfection
How did you all deal with disarming with multi opponents and what were some of the techniques you utilized while in the vehicles?

I don't agree with all of the SCARS training methods, but Jerry Peterson is hands down the number one gun disarm expert on the planet. For simplicity, effectiveness and scientific protocol he nailed it.

Sincerely,

Ken

Have you ever trained with John Whitman of the US KM organization?

I have no experience with SCARS, besides sparring with a couple of inept "practitioners" who I would certainly hope are not representative of the system. But having triained with John, I was extremely impressed by the gun disarm tactics he presented, and many claim him to be the number 1 gun disarm specialist in the country:) It would be interesting to hear someone who has experience in both.

**Rigante** · Posted On: 10/31/2003 3:20pm

Hapko do you know if he has any tapes for review I would be interested in seeing them as there is always something new to learn.
Thanks

**HAPKO3** · Posted On: 10/31/2003 3:45pm

They have old and crappy tapes, but I would advise you against buying them.

Supposedly a new set of DVDs is in the final stages of production, and should be out in a couple of months.

KM holds so called Complete Combat Seminars, with Darren Levine, Amir Perets, and Bas Rutten on self defence tactics, gun disarms, and NHB fighting every once in a while. They aren't cheap - something like 200 - 250 bucks for a day, but everyone raves about them. Haven't been to one myself, so I can't guarantee anything though.

**Perfection** · Posted On: 10/31/2003 6:47pm

Rigante, I greatly appreciate that information. What type of leverage was used in the multi disarm scenario? Did you all deal with an attacker being so close behind you that his chest was nearly touching your back? Also, in the car, did you simply push the gun hand away and towards their body and then slam them with kinetic strikes?

Hapko, I haven't trained with John Whitman, but I have seen
a lot of them. I've seen them in magazines, clips on martial arts specials on TLC and I even read their weapons book. From what I saw, hes not on the same level as Jerry Peterson when it comes to disarms.

In regards to those untalented SCARS people, I truly believe you. Its an undeniable fact that the person makes the system work, not the other way around.

Sincerely,

Ken

**Kungfoolss** · Posted On: 10/31/2003 9:33pm

Originally posted by Perfection

In regards to those untalented SCARS people, I truly believe you.

I don't, why would a SCARS practitioner be sparring in the first place? This is such an obvious martial arts Lie.

**HAPKO3** · Posted On: 10/31/2003 9:54pm

Originally posted by Kungfoolss
I don't

I'm heartbroken.

When will you realize that nobody gives a **** about you or your opinion?

**Rigante** · Posted On: 10/31/2003 10:14pm

Kungfools what level training did you do at SCARS and when?
Where you are coming from experience wise might help us understand your question. Thanks

**Kungfoolss** · Posted On: 10/31/2003 10:35pm

Originally posted by Rigante
Kungfools what level training did you do at SCARS and when?
Where you are coming from experience wise might help us understand your question. Thanks

My extensive knowledge and level of experience in the system is without dispute and well documented. If you disagree, just ask Ken. We have corresponded in the past.

PS. Trust me, the last thing you're ever going to want to do is weigh your expertise against my own.