Do too many TMA's create arrogance?

**bobyclumsyninja** · Posted On: 10/10/2007 3:42am

hayleanwushu posted some primacy of honor crapola about mma guys arrogance, but I think this is a more appropriate question, besides, isn't fake humility worse than open arrogance?

Specifically lineage driven, tradition bound, sparring free TMAs. Is it possible that the lack of humbling experiences (tapped out, beaten up in sparring) while studying how to fight (in theory) could contribute to a dismissive attitude toward mma fighters, or sport fighters in general? Of course it is, but WTF???

Not having seen their teachers go at it hard (ugh!) or feel the reality themselves of resisting opponents, and the sting of failure, would delude someone into mocking sport fighters because they actually get hit, even in the best of circumstances...and things don't look all polished when no one's standing in front of them waiting to receive the technique.

I'm curious what kind of stupidity you all have heard out of the mouths of TMAssholes?

how about, "I'd just kick you in the knee" as a response to anything involving combat. I've heard that from three different neo-trustafarians at Havahd Yahd, during discussions on self defense. I think the smell of Chille comiing off them was more deadly than a knee kick.

**variance** · Posted On: 10/10/2007 3:58am

a) You just block thai low kicks by kicking their foot away. (WC practitioner)

b) well in a real fight.... a normal person wouldn't know how to do that (aikidoka to me after I broke his l33t wristlock and turned it into a elbow lock)

c) Well you never know how someone's going to come at you with a knife (trying to justify the most ridiculous attack angle. (a stab coming straight down from the top) while trying to demo his l33t knife defense to me.

d) I wear gloves with less padding because they take away the power of the chain punch - Chunner

e) Shooting is stupid. Just knee or elbow them.

f) Boxing is the real deal. Muay Thai is fake. If it was legit. Then how come its not as big as boxing?

**illegalusername** · Posted On: 10/10/2007 4:17am

a) "I could paralyze you by hitting your nerve points"
Said by several ryukyu-kenpo BS'ers. If my god damn FACE has ten points where a poke causes me to die why don't people explode when punched? God damn fist of the north star wannabes.
b) "Well you should never get closer than kicking distance"
Said by a TKD'er after we discussed applying TKD in no-rules fight. God damn man you earned that blue belt circling your fat ass by doing kata. Ever considered sparring?

I think all the arrogance in martial arts stem from stupid people, not stupid styles.
Of course, stupid styles attract stupid people. And vice versa.

**oldman34** · Posted On: 10/10/2007 5:33am

TMA do promote arrogance.

Why? Because they can say all kinds of wild crap about their deadly skills, and then hide behind "Well my insurance wont cover us if I hurt someone."

In an MMA school, if you start talking crap, you will HAVE to back it up.
Three words people "open mat challenge"

Some of the rudest people I have ever met were the BB's at Disney World last year when an ATA national tournament was going on. These BB's were rude as hell. Especially the kiddie BB's.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 10/10/2007 5:42am

Osiris summed it up best:
It takes a special kind of asshole to brag about being humble.

This fits so many so called TMAist.

They say things like, "Just because you can't beat me doesn't me you are better at Martial Arts." But when you tell them that MA is about me beating you they act like you don't get the point.

We had a TKD guy come in to our gym and wanted to sparr. He did the typical hands down and alot of kicks. However most the kicks he threw left him on the ground where he got annhialated. It replayed over and over again. When I tried to point it out he tried to rationalize it. I just kept asking, "So how did that work out for you?" then immediately answered, "Oh yeah you got beat down."

**bushi_no_ki** · Posted On: 10/10/2007 6:07am

I'd say arrogance will be found in MA anywhere, whether TMA or MMA, BS or not. My old instructor was not the most humble man, but he wasn't the most arrogant. When he did display humility, it was honest. He was the type of man who would be found in another school trying to learn anything else he could. But, then again, there were more than a few Hanshi/Kyoshi/Shihan in the area who would preach humility, and then brag about how many years they've studied.

I've also run into a few arrogant BJJ/MMA practitioners here in Colorado. Their arrogance has nothing to do with how they do in competition. They are arrogant based on what they study alone, and who has been/is a great competitor in the same style.

**Virus** · Posted On: 10/10/2007 6:08am

1. "Sparring is no more realistic than what we do." t3h ninjer instructor.

2. "We train to get back up again as soon as possible rather than stay on the ground like in bjj."

3. "We can do everything they can do, plus more." (talking about BJJers)

4. "Sparring is about fighting fair. We aren't about that. We pick up bottles."

**Odacon** · Posted On: 10/10/2007 6:47am

It's the attitude of "well you wouldn't understand, you just learn how to fight, we do real martial arts, with spirituality, inner peace etc.", that infuriates me, and then when you explain that martial arts is about fighting and that you should go to a church/temple for spirituality you get "Tsk, Tsk, you just don't get it", like their years of compliant training and tag your it sparring has made them enlightened. And it's at the point that you cant change them because you have to be broke from day 1 like you are in any full contact martial arts school to be humble. 90% of the arrogant types described will just become more bitter and come up with more ridiculous excuses if humbled.

**Jadonblade** · Posted On: 10/10/2007 7:29am

I imagine it is with any sport or even activity. If you practise and easily do well then for your purposes you are good. However as soon as you take those skills into another environment where they havnt been tested is where you truly can get a measure of those skills. By losing you learn. And in MA losing (atleast properly) is rare because of the lack of full contact.

First time I sparred in san da I was pretty sure I was kick ass. Touch gloves, and I get a quick hook to my chin. Dirty move but it woke me up. These guys gotta get out of there comfort zone. No matter what you do there is ALWAYS a better opponent, so you should always be trying to improve. Perfecting your kata is not an effecient enough route, it may feel like it but only because it is untested.

They might as well say: "I have a ball of string, it is the longest piece of string in the world but Im not going to roll it out to let you measure it because I know its the longest. "

**cyril** · Posted On: 10/10/2007 7:44am

It's like being fed broccoli. They tell you it's good for you, and at first you eat it because it's forcefully fed through a parent or adult or something.

Then when you're older, you see all sorts of different ways to make it. Steam it, serve it with cheese, dipped in ranch, etc. You realize that really, it isn't all that bad.

Soon you see that it really is good for you, but then you die. Because no matter what you try to do, and no matter how good broccoli is for you, you still need other nutrients to survive. Any way you cook it, it's only part of the whole meal.

I don't know what I was trying to say here, but I really want some broccoli now. And I hate that so many kids think that their broccoli is superior to people who actually eat.