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  1. cyrijl is offline
    cyrijl's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2007 2:52pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, because it's really easy to train techniques that involve breaking peoples limbs at full speed isn't it?
    actually...yes it is....please see judo, bjj, boxing, mt

    But even better. Try catching a boxer's jab. You just can't do it. The idea of a trapping range is ridicuous. If you trap it is more out of luck than skill and doing 'forms a thousand times' is not going to help you.

    Maybe you are just too young or too deluded. But I am pretty sure none of those techniques will work against a resisting opponent trying to hurt you. For police and other LEOs there are other factors which allow them to use common JJJ locks such as a gun and backup as well as the social constructs of police use of force. For the average individual, those deterrents are not available.

    As an example the very first technique in the top video. If someone is coming to shove you, they are not ocming to your body and stoppin, they are pushing through you. You do not have to go full speed on the defense, but the attacks are just pitiful and unrealistic.
  2. Lebell is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/09/2007 2:54pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Warrior
    I thought you said you taught it? Why do you teach something you think is ****?
    I teach grappling/locking and self defense which is what those fat guys tried to do in their video.
    So dont try to be clever plz, you're failing really hard as it is already.
  3. Shadow Warrior is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2007 3:01pm


     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebell
    I teach grappling/locking and self defense which is what those fat guys tried to do in their video.
    So dont try to be clever plz, you're failing really hard as it is already.
    I'm not trying to be clever.

    For all I know those moves might be ****, I don't know. I was perhaps naive to think that people might say what is wrong with the techniques rather than just the usual "what the **** is that **** lol?!!1" comments.

    In response to cyrijl, I'm not sure that techniques which break a persons elbow/wrist/fingers are allowed in BJJ/Judo, etc are they? The videos appear to be examples of applications and areas to apply pressure to an attacker, slowed down for the video. It's totally pointless to show techniques like that at full speed because no-one is going to be able to pick it up.
  4. Lebell is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/09/2007 3:03pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    look if you cant tell whats wrong with the techniques then you're not only a n00b at bullshido but also at martial arts.
    please try to look and see if you can spot the bs yourself otherwise ill point some stuff out.
  5. Shadow Warrior is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2007 3:08pm


     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well if I'm clearly a n00b tell me what's wrong with the techniques please instead of assuming I know everything. Y'know, it might make the forum a slightly friendlier place for people to talk about martial arts.
  6. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/09/2007 3:09pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Warrior
    Yes, because it's really easy to train techniques that involve breaking peoples limbs at full speed isn't it?
    Judo, SAMBO, BJJ, MFS, Jackson's Gaidojutsu and many other disciplines and systems do techniques that can break limbs at full speed, including:

    armbar/juji gatame
    knee bar
    ankle lock
    heel hook
    keylock/kimura/ude garami
    omoplata
    hammer lock
    wristlocks
    neck crank, twister, or anything that can be labelled as a spinal lock.

    Should the list go on?
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 10/09/2007 3:15pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  7. Lebell is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/09/2007 3:12pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Warrior
    Well if I'm clearly a n00b tell me what's wrong with the techniques please instead of assuming I know everything. Y'know, it might make the forum a slightly friendlier place for people to talk about martial arts.
    you shouldnt be talking about it but train it more.

    before i point out whats wrong with them i want you to at least point out 3 things which you think could have been better in the first video.

    make some effort.
  8. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/09/2007 3:12pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok. I didn't know you were being honest. Here is my best attempt.

    When someone attacks, either trained or untrained, they typically do not leave their limbs hanging out to be grabbed. A trained striker will have fast hands and retract after every punch. Even typical haymakers will make a full swing at the target. Both of these scenarios make it extremely difficult to catch someone's hand.

    Assuming you caught someone's hand, You then have to hope that they don't struggle against your technique. If you look at the demonstrations, the attacker typically stops at first contact with the defender (in many cases, the exertion of force is interrupted much earlier). If you watch any real fights (not even ufc fights), people tend to struggle until the very end. BJJ works on the ground because the people who train in it, train against full resistance not because the technique in and of itself is anything new. Judo is the same, judo has shoulder, arm and leg locks which are effective because the participants train against fully resisting opponenets.

    These locks can break limbs please do not think they can't, and often new students injure others because of ther lack of control. I have had my elbow popped a few times.

    When you learn to do techniques against fully resisting opponents, you not only learn how to apply the techniques, but also how to control them. When I get someone in a shoulder or arm lock I don't need to break something to subdue them. But if I ever needed to, I would.

    We get new students all the time who want to come and and try to brawl. I don't need to cripple them in order to train my techniques. I also don't need an overly compliant training partner who just sits there like an automaton.

    Even further a field, this applies to striking. I can train using real punches since I not only know how to punch and take a punch, but also how to control the level of intensity.

    In the videos there is no real emotional investment in either the attack or the defense.
  9. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/09/2007 3:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Warrior
    Well if I'm clearly a n00b tell me what's wrong with the techniques please instead of assuming I know everything. Y'know, it might make the forum a slightly friendlier place for people to talk about martial arts.
    He does have a point. However, that doesn't take away the fact you assume too much and that you need to re-evaluate some of the things you believe (I say this due to what you said previously)

    >> Yes, because it's really easy to train techniques that involve breaking peoples
    >> limbs at full speed isn't it?
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  10. M1K3 is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/09/2007 3:14pm


     Style: submission grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Warrior
    I'm not trying to be clever.


    In response to cyrijl, I'm not sure that techniques which break a persons elbow/wrist/fingers are allowed in BJJ/Judo, etc are they?
    Fingers no, elbow...hummm... what about an armbar or a kimura or an americana? BJJ also uses some wrist locks but they don't seem to be as common, at least at the white belt (me) level.
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