10/08/2007 7:08pm, #11
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- University of South Florida
This is just my opinion on this whole unarmed man vs armed man thing:
Let me put you in a situation. You are walking down the streets with about 20 bucks in your wallet. Its dark, and very few people are about. As you pass an alley, you are pulled in by a mugger. He holds a gun up and says give me all your money.
Lets say you trained in some martial art and know a technique that just might save you, but if it doesn't work, you will probably end up getting shot and killed. Is it worth risking your life over $20? Just give him the fucking money.
More generally, when you are in any situation, think along these lines. What can I do that won't get me killed? Remember, your goal is to stay safe.
10/08/2007 7:09pm, #12
Geez, dude, if you can't even handle a little flaming on the internet without getting pissy, what makes you think that you could handle a real fight?
10/08/2007 7:14pm, #13
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Yes I am a moron asking a simple question and expecting a simple answer. Does your grappling art teach weapons? Simple answer = yes/no with possible details attached. Aparently answering a moronic and simple question is a feat of mental strength uncapable of being achieved by the majority of posters on this board. Do my sentances need to be shorter so you can understand them? Also what premise of mine is wrong? If the origional intent of an art was weapon based but as it is taught now its is far from weapon based, then it seems that my premise is correct given the current level of training. The entire point of Aikido was to be able to defend yourself against armed opponents. By your logic, because it was initially designed to fight armed opponents its fine eventhough that is not how it is taught now. Ju Jitsu was origionally developed for fighting against an armed opponent but now it is mostly taught for fighting unarmed against unarmed. How does this invalidate my premise? Does it currently teach you weapon use? Does it currently teach you weapon defense? And you are right. I don't understand the reality of fighting an armed opponent. That is why I asked my question. I also don't understand the nature of grappling as I have not trained in grappling and being of larger size few people are ever trying to wrestle with me. Again why I asked my question. And I would like to apologize for using so many words Tom Kagan. I would have used pictures for you, but I am not good at drawing.
10/08/2007 7:21pm, #14
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Well I am sorry I don't respond to being called an asshole well. I don't read this board to get flamed or called names. I thought it was supposed to be for getting information about martial arts. Also I am not particularly concerned with being in a fight, but from what I have seen, tenacity in a fight is more usefull than pacifism.
10/08/2007 7:26pm, #15Also I am not particularly concerned with being in a fight, but from what I have seen, tenacity in a fight is more usefull than pacifism.
Anyways, check this out: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59109
Some BJJ schools still teach this stuff. Helio Gracie usually claims that he founded an art of self-defense, not a sport; he taught stuff like this in his self-defense curriculum.
Honestly, as pointed out before, going for a specific defense against a weapon isn't worth it in most situations. If you screw up, you could end up dead.
10/08/2007 7:27pm, #16
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
ok, then how about reading half of the posts that have already been done on this topic.
or hell, even some of the posts in this thread have some tidbits of information, if you weren't so busy fucking exploding over people calling you a moron, you might have caught them.
grappling allows you to control the opponent and possibly take away his ability to attack with the weapon, but its close range might end up with you getting stabbed or hurt or whatever.
moral of the story-no empty handed martial art can really prepare you for an armed assailant unless you're training with aliveness, but even then chances are you're going to get hurt.
10/08/2007 7:37pm, #17
BJJ has disarms against weapons as part of it's dark and shadowy self defence syllabus. From what little I understand about knife defense, the knife defenses aren't very good.
A lot of Sambo schools, also, as I understand it, have weapon disarming syllaby.
A lot of non-demoninational jujutsu schools will probably have weapon disarms.
Shodokan Aikido gives one guy a rubber knife in their shiai, so I imagine knife disarms are a big part of that.
I believe I've seen defenses against weapons in a judo self-defense syllabus, but those don't seem to get practiced very often.
So, in short, yes - a lot of grappling styles do have weapon defenses.
In my own personal training (sparring with friends), I'll sometimes hand my friend a rubber knife or stick to work on applying my BJJ against weapons. For clubs, it's mostly a matter of closing the distance without getting whacked. Once your in a clinch or on the ground, the club isn't of much use. I've found a really explosive shot to be the easiest method of doing this, despite my horrible shooting.
For knife, it's more about gaining control of the knife (without getting stabbed), taking them to the ground (without getting stabbed), and applying some kind of lock or disarm (without getting stabbed). The biggest problem I've found is the instinctive tendency of people to switch the knife to their other hand when you try to control their knife arm. I've had a little bit of success with controls which tie up both hands (crucifixes, etc.) to prevent this.
It's a lot harder than dealing with an unarmed attacker, but it's not impossible.
10/08/2007 7:39pm, #18
Originally Posted by pnwnorseman
- Join Date
- Jan 2003
- New York, NY USA
- Taai Si Ji Kung Fu
It's easier to deal with if you are not an asshole. At least the question of whether you are one is answered.Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.
"Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ
"Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken
My Bullshido fan club threads:
Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
ATTN TOM KAGAN
World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
10/08/2007 8:14pm, #19
Want to be safe? Against a Kendoka? In a BAR???
10/08/2007 8:15pm, #20
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Washington State
- BJJ, Unauthorized Judo
Want a simple answer. If you find a system that actually has good grappling as well as good weapons training then yes, your grappling will help in that situation. If you already have good grappling, then you understand the concepts of fighting in close range and the ground and you can add weapons in the mix, train with the prerequisite aliveness and find yourself with a functional ability to use your grappling defensively when weapons are involve. One of the key points, however, is to understand that when dealing with weapons of any kind whether they be blunt, edged, or projectile, is that they change the game completely. The correct training can prepare you for those situations were a weapon is involved but just like in unarmed self defense situations, the best defense will always be a sound mind and very fast legs.