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  1. 2Many is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/25/2009 6:35pm


     Style: Legalese

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post

    WING CHUN USED BY: ... Australian Federal Police & Immigration Dept ...
    Immigration? LOL!

    The Australian Department of Immigration and Citizenship do not perform any functions that require defensive tactics or self defence training. It is possible that there might have been a seminar held for interested members of the department, but they certainly don't "use" Wing Chun for regular operations.

    As for Australian Federal Police, I'm not sure of the specifics. You could try the AFP Museum, who might be able to find out any historical connections to martial arts instructors in the past:
    https://www.afp.gov.au/email_forms/afp_museum.html

    One of my previous Kung Fu instructors learned some self defence when Mark Haseman (Tohkan Ryu Jujitsu founder) was a guest instructor at the Queensland Police academy several years ago. One of my work colleagues went through the Queensland Police academy in 2008 and received no self defence training whatsoever, apart from basic baton/OC/firearms usage.

    The New South Wales Police receive practically no empty hand self defence training either. There was a TV series on their academy recently. They did some interesting baton work, but nothing substantial in empty hand defence.

    (The Queensland Police Service and New South Police Force are the 3rd and 2nd largest state police in Australia, respectively.)
  2. Erevan is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/25/2009 11:20pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ / Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When I was with AFP (Protective Service 1999) I don't recall Wing Chun being part of the self defense curriculum.
  3. kwan_dao is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2009 5:56am


     Style: sambo, stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Hardon View Post
    All of them were asserted to be (Trad) JJ Dan Grades.
    Not traditional Jiu Jitsu as most bullshido members would understand it, but a modernized variant. The german police trains in Ju-Jutsu/Jiu-Jitsu. Its an obligatory part of their education and taught at the police academies.

    The system is very widespread in Germany and Austria (also due to the many "Polizeisportvereine" - sports unions for policemen and their family, which often practice Ju-Jutsu/Jiu-Jitsu besides other sports).

    Basically its a mixture of huge parts trad. Jiu-Jitsu and Judo, with added in Boxing and Muay Thai and some general modernization/ongoing development. I guess we (yes, its actually the style I practice) still call it "Japanese", because "German Jiu-Jitsu/Ju-Jutsu" sounds stupid and would be ungrateful to the Japanese roots.

    I have never heard of any official Chun training for german law-enforcement personel. Neither through media/web, nor through the dozen officers in my closest family. The only sources for these rumors I know are Chun practitioners.

    Here are some links to official websites on Ju-Jutsu within the police though (sorry for all the german, but somehow our police tends to use that language more then english... maybe google-translate will be of help for those not speaking german):

    Police-Championships in Ju-Jutsu/Jiu-Jitsu 2009 held in Lüneburg:

    http://www.presseportal.de/polizeipr...tion_lueneburg


    Polizeisportverein Karlsruhe:

    http://www.psv-karlsruhe.de/ju-jutsu.html


    Polizeisportverein Mönchengladbach:

    http://www.psv-jiujitsu.de/


    Polizeisportverein Frankfurt am Main:

    http://www.jujutsu-ffm.de/

    Just to give a few examples...

    Edit: Trailer of the official "Ju-Jutsu Bundesseminar" (national workshop) 2008:

    YouTube - Ju-Jutsu Bundesseminar 2008

    and 2007 (trailer is better IMHO):

    YouTube - Ju-Jutsu / Jiu-Jitsu Bundesseminar 2007
    Last edited by kwan_dao; 8/26/2009 6:17am at .
  4. Kambei Shimada is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/26/2009 6:12am


     Style: Sub-Grap/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would'nt be suprised if WT was taught to GSG9 & SEK in Germany.Leung Tings WT is like fucking Starbucks over there.
  5. kwan_dao is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2009 6:41am


     Style: sambo, stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kambei Shimada View Post
    I would'nt be suprised if WT was taught to GSG9 & SEK in Germany.Leung Tings WT is like fucking Starbucks over there.
    Strange how we "over here" have not recognized the wide and cheap availability of the chun yet. Next chunners nest is more then 200km away from me btw. Unlike the next Starbucks... :-)

    The members of the "Grenzschutz Sondergruppe 9" (GSG9) are trained in Ju-Jutsu. Its an obligatory part of their academy curriculum.

    Edit: Maybe this information might be helpful as to the importance of WC in Germany as compared to other MA´s: The Ju-Jutsu federation has 50.000 members, the Judo federation 200.000.

    If there are more then 3000 Chunners in Germany I "will eat a broom" as we say here.
  6. Kovacs is online now
    Kovacs's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2009 6:51am


     Style: Kettles (MA hiatus).

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwan_dao View Post
    Strange how we "over here" have not recognized the wide and cheap availability of the chun yet. Next chunners nest is more then 200km away from me btw. Unlike the next Starbucks... :-)
    Oh it'll get you. It gets us all in the end.

    I remember we had an British ex-special forces guy come and train with my WC group back in the day. He made some positive comments about it and how some of the guys he knew still serving may find it useful.

    The next day, BAM! WC recommended by the SAS.
  7. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2009 7:39am


     Style: Trad Ju Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwan_dao View Post
    Not traditional Jiu Jitsu as most bullshido members would understand it, but a modernized variant. The german police trains in Ju-Jutsu/Jiu-Jitsu. Its an obligatory part of their education and taught at the police academies.

    The system is very widespread in Germany and Austria (also due to the many "Polizeisportvereine" - sports unions for policemen and their family, which often practice Ju-Jutsu/Jiu-Jitsu besides other sports).

    Basically its a mixture of huge parts trad. Jiu-Jitsu and Judo, with added in Boxing and Muay Thai and some general modernization/ongoing development. I guess we (yes, its actually the style I practice) still call it "Japanese", because "German Jiu-Jitsu/Ju-Jutsu" sounds stupid and would be ungrateful to the Japanese roots.

    I have never heard of any official Chun training for german law-enforcement personel. Neither through media/web, nor through the dozen officers in my closest family. The only sources for these rumors I know are Chun practitioners.

    Here are some links to official websites on Ju-Jutsu within the police though (sorry for all the german, but somehow our police tends to use that language more then english... maybe google-translate will be of help for those not speaking german):

    Police-Championships in Ju-Jutsu/Jiu-Jitsu 2009 held in Lüneburg:

    http://www.presseportal.de/polizeipr...tion_lueneburg


    Polizeisportverein Karlsruhe:

    http://www.psv-karlsruhe.de/ju-jutsu.html


    Polizeisportverein Mönchengladbach:

    http://www.psv-jiujitsu.de/


    Polizeisportverein Frankfurt am Main:

    http://www.jujutsu-ffm.de/

    Just to give a few examples...

    Edit: Trailer of the official "Ju-Jutsu Bundesseminar" (national workshop) 2008:

    YouTube - Ju-Jutsu Bundesseminar 2008

    and 2007 (trailer is better IMHO):

    YouTube - Ju-Jutsu / Jiu-Jitsu Bundesseminar 2007
    Thanks for this. Bullshido members well understand that "Trad JJ" is a variant of JJ and not true Japanese JJ.

    Sadly, I can't remember German but thanks for the links nor can I access youtube in the office and we also lack Flash. No matter. The DJJB is well known to me in that I have attended many international meets with them in attendance (they always impress me) as does Sensei Dieter Losgen, the Head Instructor. I expect to see him on the mat later this year where he will likely teach another variant of wrist-lock and I will likely say "Ouch!".:5eek:

    My ref to claims for WC to teach seminar work with German Police JJ Grades was drawn from Leung Ting's book with photos (of Keith Kernspecht). But really, it means nothing. I've got a photo of me and Royce Gracie...I only claim that he is a gentleman and I value the seminar he instructed at; I make no claim on BJJ. It may be that the LT/KK seminar concluded, the German Police said "Danke" and carried right on with their JJ.

    Hope this doesn't digress.

    Over and Out.:icon_bigg
  8. kwan_dao is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2009 8:21am


     Style: sambo, stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Hardon View Post
    It may be that the LT/KK seminar concluded, the German Police said "Danke" and carried right on with their JJ.

    Hope this doesn't digress.

    Over and Out.:icon_bigg
    Actually that´s what I would suspect as well. Especially because Ju-Jutsu is meant to be open for new "stuff".

    If (and thats a big IF) they found anything useful in Mr. Kenrspechts teachings, they probably would have gone so far as to say "Danke sehr!" (with a cherry on top) and simply assimilated it into their curriculum. Carrying on with a -yet again- slightly changed Ju-Jutsu happily ever after.
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