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  1. Whosthemaster is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2007 10:36am


     Style: FMA BJJ Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Just how known is FMA/Kali out there?

    Wether it's by the name of Escrima, Kali or Arnis de Mano, how known is the FMA out there? I've been practicing for a short time and 99% of the people have never even heard of it. After the little explanation I'm forced to provide, normly those same people make stupid comments like - "that is a waste of time, what good is to train stickfighting if you won't have a stick all the time" or "why bother with a Filipino martial art? Go train something Japanese!".
    My point is, at least here in Brazil the FMA is only known (if known) by other martial artists. The only one I talked that already had heard of it was a friend of mine who is a Muay Thai fighter. I got quite surprised when I realized that here in BS or in the Human Weapon forum the art is very known and respected. Is it just because we are all martial artists here? Or because in other countries it is just better known?
  2. variance is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2007 12:54pm


     Style: EF UM A

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Whosthemaster
    Wether it's by the name of Escrima, Kali or Arnis de Mano, how known is the FMA out there? I've been practicing for a short time and 99% of the people have never even heard of it. After the little explanation I'm forced to provide, normly those same people make stupid comments like - "that is a waste of time, what good is to train stickfighting if you won't have a stick all the time" or "why bother with a Filipino martial art? Go train something Japanese!".
    My point is, at least here in Brazil the FMA is only known (if known) by other martial artists. The only one I talked that already had heard of it was a friend of mine who is a Muay Thai fighter. I got quite surprised when I realized that here in BS or in the Human Weapon forum the art is very known and respected. Is it just because we are all martial artists here? Or because in other countries it is just better known?
    Maybe because Kali/Arnis/Escrima keeps it simple. effective, stands up to pressure testing and works?

    I guess also maybe because the art isn't as romantic as CMA or JMA. As perhaps our culture isn't as dynastically rich/imaginative as the CMAs or JMAs put out. (OMG Shaolin temples, Flying Wushu skillz or l33t samurai jujitsu)

    course FMA has some of its own lore/questionable claims type thing itself.

    (We killed Magellan yo. Cut his head off also our l33t kamagong ironwood sticks pwn3d the spanish' swords and we'd hide our martial arts in dances and **** cuz the spanish didnt like getting their heads chopped off. also we influenced modern boxing when the americans hypocritically tried to suppress our declaration of independence and came here.)

    FMA isn't really big on the Public relations front from what I've seen.
    For example, half the people claim the Bourne Trilogy fight choreography was Krav Maga
    Even though it was Pekiti Tirsia Kali (Becomes painfully obvious IMHO towards the best fight of the third movie with the Panuntukan unarmed fighting and the final knife fight)

    even other filipinos (Filipino Americans) i know of barely know of FMA or think its just sticks. The concept of sticks being a teaching tool or a abstract concept for using all weapons as an extension of your body isn't well known.

    Personally I'm kind of satisfied with the current situation. FMA has potential to have so much more bullshido then it has now if it got super popular.

    Still If I feel I have to enforce my arts legitimacy. I tell em to go look up dog brothers videos or watch the Bourne Trilogy movies.
  3. Whosthemaster is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2007 9:16am


     Style: FMA BJJ Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by variance
    Maybe because Kali/Arnis/Escrima keeps it simple. effective, stands up to pressure testing and works?

    I guess also maybe because the art isn't as romantic as CMA or JMA. As perhaps our culture isn't as dynastically rich/imaginative as the CMAs or JMAs put out. (OMG Shaolin temples, Flying Wushu skillz or l33t samurai jujitsu)

    course FMA has some of its own lore/questionable claims type thing itself.

    (We killed Magellan yo. Cut his head off also our l33t kamagong ironwood sticks pwn3d the spanish' swords and we'd hide our martial arts in dances and **** cuz the spanish didnt like getting their heads chopped off. also we influenced modern boxing when the americans hypocritically tried to suppress our declaration of independence and came here.)

    FMA isn't really big on the Public relations front from what I've seen.
    For example, half the people claim the Bourne Trilogy fight choreography was Krav Maga
    Even though it was Pekiti Tirsia Kali (Becomes painfully obvious IMHO towards the best fight of the third movie with the Panuntukan unarmed fighting and the final knife fight)

    even other filipinos (Filipino Americans) i know of barely know of FMA or think its just sticks. The concept of sticks being a teaching tool or a abstract concept for using all weapons as an extension of your body isn't well known.

    Personally I'm kind of satisfied with the current situation. FMA has potential to have so much more bullshido then it has now if it got super popular.

    Still If I feel I have to enforce my arts legitimacy. I tell em to go look up dog brothers videos or watch the Bourne Trilogy movies.
    Well, I don't know any Filipinos myself but the concept that FMA is simply about sticks is something I try to correct whenever talking to new or potential students (they are not my students , but I am regularly asked to teach the basics for them). I think FMA and other more obscure martial arts deserve much more attention than they currently have. For instance, Korean Haidong Gumdo looks and plays similar to Japanese Kendo - but it is much more fun! Those Japanese arts have many practitioners because they have been marketed more. But I'm getting off topic.

    The movie stuff you said is true. Our teacher says even the Krav Maga people here would say that the Bourne films use Krav - he had to tell them to watch the DVD extras in order to figure out they were talking BS. Our teacher is also the creator of the Kombato (I posted a thread about it on the armory and self defense forum) and he says he can't figure out how a relatively new martial art that has little advertizement can have so much more people practicing than Kali, being an internationally famous and traditional art that has been shown in quite some movies: The Bourne Trilogy, Blade, Game of Death, The Hunted, 300, Under Siege and some others. I think the problem there is there is no character that says "Don't mess with me, I'm a Kali master and I'll sinawalli your ASS!"

    When people see the movies, they think Bourne is Krav Maga because it seems like that if you don't already know FMA. Same with Steven Seagal or Bruce Lee, you'll think it's Aikido or Kung fu. What good is a Pepsi AD if you watch it and think it's Coke? I think the Chinese were smart: I doubt there is any hong kong movie set in ancient China were someone doesn't say that "someone elses Kung Fu sucks or kicks ass".
  4. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/08/2007 12:04pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Within the martial arts community, it is fairly well known. Among the general population, it is not well known.
  5. MSphinx is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/08/2007 12:13pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    FMA was considered a really geeky thing to do back when I was in high school. I remember some people I knew thinking that learning weapons first was useless since you never carry them around anyway, and learning hand to hand combat was far more badass. In fact the most popular martial arts club in my high school was the TKD club. Yes, there was bullshido everywhere.
  6. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2007 3:36am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    FMA is most often taught one on one, not as a group setting, so it remains obscure. In Places such as California where many islanders mirated to work it is generally well known, atleast as a concept, by the general public, but most only as "stick fighting". Maybe in Brazil they haven't had so much imigration of Filapino labor?

    FMA is much much more then just stick fighting, but it seems to always be taught with a stick. That is the paradox I think....

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  7. variance is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2007 4:38am


     Style: EF UM A

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    FMA is most often taught one on one, not as a group setting, so it remains obscure. In Places such as California where many islanders mirated to work it is generally well known, atleast as a concept, by the general public, but most only as "stick fighting". Maybe in Brazil they haven't had so much imigration of Filapino labor?

    FMA is much much more then just stick fighting, but it seems to always be taught with a stick. That is the paradox I think....
    It's taught with a stick because the stick is the metaphor through which you learn the techs.

    It's easier for a person to learn coordination when focusing on something external. (Swinging a bat with power comes naturally because you learn to coordinate and focus when swinging the bat)

    ie. Stick.

    Alot of FMA instructors like to refer to this as "muscle memory"

    You don't think about it. Your body just makes the basic angles and basic blocks a habit or reaction as well as where to focus for a strike/trap/pivot/parry/slip/etc.

    but I see your point.

    as for one on one instruction... I dont know if thats completely true.

    I know that the live drills are one on one usually.
    The dead pattern drills can be group (you have two guys in front of you. and they have two guys in front of them. so every other strike your hitting a diff guys stick. (Reference to double baston sinawali pattern) but those dead pattern are more for conditioning / learning focus, distance, rhythm/flow and concentration before moving onto the live drills.
  8. Sabateur is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2007 10:34am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: IMA, BJJ Newbie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know much about FMA, beyond that they exist and many martial artists cross train into Kali after something else. So mind if I ask a few questions?

    1) The sticks/weapons are used as a 'metaphor' through which technique is taught. Does this mean that what you learn with stick translates into striking/ other techniques when not armed?

    2) Do you ever spar without weapons then in class or in tournaments?

    3) If so, how well does it translate? Do you need to cross train in something that doesn't use weapons as a vehicle to teach unarmed combat?

    Suggestions for links or sources I can read on to know more about differences about arnis, kali etc. I am searching now, and there's a lot of stuff, but if you already know of sites I'd appreciate it.

    Thanks.
  9. variance is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2007 12:16pm


     Style: EF UM A

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabateur
    I don't know much about FMA, beyond that they exist and many martial artists cross train into Kali after something else. So mind if I ask a few questions?

    1) The sticks/weapons are used as a 'metaphor' through which technique is taught. Does this mean that what you learn with stick translates into striking/ other techniques when not armed?

    2) Do you ever spar without weapons then in class or in tournaments?

    3) If so, how well does it translate? Do you need to cross train in something that doesn't use weapons as a vehicle to teach unarmed combat?

    Suggestions for links or sources I can read on to know more about differences about arnis, kali etc. I am searching now, and there's a lot of stuff, but if you already know of sites I'd appreciate it.

    Thanks.
    1) Yes. The stick is meant to teach angles of attack/defense. The angles of attack translates whether you have a stick, a knife, a sword, or empty hands.

    Think of the weapon as an extension of your body. If you have no weapon. the portion of your body frlom your elbow to your hand is your "stick"

    2) In class. In tournaments, alot of the distinguishing features of our empty hand techs is lost beacuse joint destruction isn't practical to pressure test. See Panantukan or Yaw Yan to see what FMA would look like competively. Pretty much MT with Gunting techs. and Blocking punches with your elbow.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH-0yOFbURs
    or the fight scenes in the Bourne Ultimatum are a good example too.

    There's an example for you.

    3) It translates pretty well. The only downside is that alot of FMAs dont have a whole lot of emphasis on the empty hand alone. so think of it as like a comparison between Judo and BJJ. Most Judo has some ne-waza but on the whole its emphasis is on standing throws. BJJ is solely ne-waza so on average, BJJ will put out better ne-waza players than Judo because thats all they train.

    So for self-defense. FMA empty-hand would work pretty well. especially as we do have quite a bit of emphasis on empty hand vs weapon. just not so much on emphasis on empty hand vs empty hand. (again depends on your teacher... the Dog Brothers have some curriculum of FMA empty hand applied directly to mixed martial arts.. check their site.)




  10. Bolverk is offline

    Ex-ATA and Proud of it.

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2007 1:07pm


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah, Filipino Martial Arts. I love them, and find them to be fantastic in application as well. Hubud/Lubud, Dumog, Arnis/Kali/Escrima/Sinawalli, Silat, Panuntukan, Pananjakman, etc. I love this stuff, it is so dynamic and destructive it is cool.

    Stick Fighting, most do not know the history of this or the reason that it is trained first. Think about it, you live in an area of 1,000 islands and every Asian country around you wants to raid you for your goods. Not to mention Spaniards. Well, everyone who lives there is a farmer and a fighter. You have to be able to grow food and defend your people. So the training must be quick and effective, no useless techniques.

    You start with the stick because it teaches you to move, it hurts to get hit with a stick. You learn angles and deception, high and low and multiple techniques with excellent followups. Sticks, believe it or not, teach you to fight inside, as this is where you eliminate the power of the weapon. And, they lead to the next natural progression, the knife and then on to empty hands.

    Ah, I love Filipino Martial Arts. Three beats, two beats and single beat hand techniques with oblique kicks to the knee. Awesome inside techniques, angles and lots of footwork.

    I just got back from there last month. Got to see a nice MMA tournament, not much different from the states. With the exception that their nylon ropes are not covered and there is no padding under the canvass.

    Some great fighters come from the Philippines. Manny is just one of them. I watched fifteen boxing matches against Mexico and the Philippines destroyed them. Plus there was a huge match between a Filipino Fighter and a Japanese fighter, Japan got their butts handed to them.

    FMA is the stuff. Just watch the Hunted with Tommy Lee Jones and Benicio Del Toro. This movie had an excellent display of Filipino Martial Arts. The system they used was Sayoc Kali. Check it out, great stuff. Fun to learn as well.
    Last edited by Bolverk; 10/09/2007 1:10pm at .
    Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
    Willing is not enough, we must do.

    Never approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the rear, or a Fool from any direction!

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