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  1. #1
    Jadonblade's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    MA with best progression curve

    I was thinking to myself while in the bath, I wonder if theres an MA in which a beginner will learn faster compared to another MA. I would think there is, but it seems complicated. First we have to take away any effect of a individual student and of an individual trainer. We also have to wonder if the practicality of the art has an effect. The most usefull version of the question being: Is their a practical MA with a better rate of ability progression than another given practical MA. Speed and quality of learning and quality of techniques being the main points.

    I wonder if kata or forms will rear their heads in relation to this question.

    A well thought out martial art should have a system of passing down its information. With the best result being learning everything their is to learn, using it instinctively and gaining this in 1 day. But then there is the chance of dumbing down an MA to pass on the knowledge, but this just undermines the whole point of the exercise.

    But there has to be an optimum level, of MA complexity and teaching effeciency.
    Last edited by Jadonblade; 10/15/2007 7:08pm at .

  2. #2
    SFGOON's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wing chun has a very shallow learning curve, and in fact has been successfully taught to people in wheelchairs, and the recently deceased.

  3. #3
    Putting the "ow" back in "flowery technique"
    NJM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFGOON
    Wing chun has a very shallow learning curve, and in fact has been successfully taught to people in wheelchairs, and the recently deceased.
    Rigor mortis works well with the centerline theory?

  4. #4

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    Boxing and BJJ (own experience).

    What I've seen in BJJ is within a month of solid training you will learn basic fundamentals that will carry you well with someone your size who does not train. I am a white belt with 2 stripes at Renzo Gracie's Academy and have noticed a world of different between each stripe a person gets. With belt differences its not even comparable.

    As for boxing, I have a friend who recently started, don't know how it is in the long run but the initially slope of improvement is steep as hell since they basically revamp your whole approach to punching and movement and throw you in the ring after about a month to spar and the practical experience from that takes you even further.

  5. #5
    bushi_no_ki's Avatar
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    FUNK you can add kickboxing to that list. The simpler the style, the easier it is to pick up initially. Also, there is the aspect of being able to use most of what you learn in a competition. Those are probably better beginner arts, as a BB (or equivalent)will have a solid base to fight from as opposed to more complex styles, where you have a lot of combinations that require much more practice to obtain. I'm even adding EPAK to that list.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushi_no_ki
    FUNK you can add kickboxing to that list. The simpler the style, the easier it is to pick up initially. Also, there is the aspect of being able to use most of what you learn in a competition. Those are probably better beginner arts, as a BB (or equivalent)will have a solid base to fight from as opposed to more complex styles, where you have a lot of combinations that require much more practice to obtain. I'm even adding EPAK to that list.
    Completely slipped my mind, you're right.

    I just spoke from my own experience; myself for BJJ and watching my friend's inital progression at boxing (he took me to his practices).

    BTW I am a yellow belt in Judo I just think it takes a bit longer to get an operational proficiency.

  7. #7
    I'm grindin' 'till I'm tired...

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    I think in Boxing you see returns pretty fast. Just learning the proper form on a jab-cross combined with good stance and footwork is exponentially more effective than instinctive striking.

    Unlike wrestling or boxing, in Judo and BJJ there are (by necessity) dozens and dozens of significantly different techniques to learn to master the art, and it can take quite a while to accumulate enough basic skills to really take off (my perspective). It is, however, true that about one month of good BJJ training will set you head and shoulders above an untrained person when it comes to groundwork (or even a person who trains an art that has less emphasis on groundwork or aliveness). I can speak from authority here as I have just under one month of BJJ experience, and it has allowed me to beat people who have trained in Hapkido for longer than I have in BJJ (at submission wrestling).
    "[Fighting for Points] is doubtless very pretty, and invariably draws applause, but preferences should always be given to blows that do some business, to good straight hits that do something toward finishing the fight.
    A man who has carefully trained for brilliant tapping play, will find himself considerably out of it in case he is called upon to do any real work."
    -A.J. Newton, Boxing.

  8. #8
    WorldWarCheese's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd love to say Judo but to be honest it seems to have a pretty rough early learning curve (But gets better!)

    On the other hand... the few moves Boby showed me before the NETD and NYTD have pretty much stuck with me and while I don't do it with much grace or great form, it was a helluva lot easier to pick up the Jab, Cross, Round-Kick combo than it was Hane-Goshi.

  9. #9

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    I'd say FMA if your talking about basic self-defense against an average person with minimal to no training.

    The angles of attack / defense
    and dealing with weapons as a metaphor for empty-hand
    as well as early emphasis on good base/mobility/footwork.
    Getting over my fear of getting hit by the stick helped with fear of getting hit by a punch.

    as well as the art itself was evolved on the basis of training warriors who could fight decently in a efficient amount of time.

    The KEY is to finding a good FMA school. I'd say away from any FMA schools that use forms for example. stick to ones that focus on the fundamentals and live drills and free-sparring.

    Weak personal anecdotal story:
    after 1 and a half years I was able to hold my own in backyard brawl type crappling/mma events with experienced boxers(2 - 3 years) and newbies to BJJ(claimed 3 months of training) who were stronger/taller/bigger than me.

    and by hold my own I mean not get knocked out. land a few good ones. I dealt with the boxers by going with their fear of kicks. low kicks to the knee and thigh kept them at distance until I goaded them into overextending strikes then trapping/catching them in a lock and taking them down.

    BJJ n00bs.. I have no idea what happened. It was crappling at its finest except I have a good sense of balance/momentum and leverage. managed to get mount and tie up their arms and legs but did not know jack squat about submission. I think this was partially because I'm unnaturally strong for my small stature. They both had at height and least 20 or 30lb on me.
    Last edited by variance; 10/16/2007 2:37am at .

  10. #10

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SFGOON
    Wing chun has a very shallow learning curve, and in fact has been successfully taught to people in wheelchairs, and the recently deceased.
    :qright2: :qright2: :qright2: :qright2: :qright2:

    Boxing is the shortest learning curve.
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"

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