233627 Bullies, 3962 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 11 to 20 of 44
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12 345 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Djimbe is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    2,058

    Posted On:
    10/22/2003 4:51pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Matt :

    My lifting routine is only a twice a week, so my body should be recovering okay from even a full body work out. I have however, been thinking of switching to a "push-pull" routine instead of a full body. Maybe that will help.
    A Day for Push , a Day for Pull , and a Leg Day is a very common Routine , yeah .

    GNC charges $30(+) for what they charge you $20 for at that Website I gave you .

    I hate that Place's Prices , but you CAN get it at evry GNC that ive ever seen since its come out .
    Last edited by Djimbe; 10/22/2003 4:54pm at .
  2. Djimbe is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    2,058

    Posted On:
    10/22/2003 5:04pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    More often than not, over training is the problem.
    Okay , this NEEDS to be Drilled .

    OVERTRAINING IS NEARLY NEVER EVER EVER THE PROBLEM !

    The only placee that I have Ever heard this Preached is over at Bodybuilding.Com's Fourums , and they swear that if you open a Pickle Jar aftger doing 1 Rep 1 set/month at 5 lgs that youre "OVERTRAINING !!!!" In fact , most of them dont even understand what Overtraining actually IS , and most of the ppl that I hear shouting about it have CRAP bodies , and whine that the ONLY reason that ANYONE could EVER get ANY Muscle on them is because of "Perfect Gentetics" and "Steroids"

    In short , in my experience the "Overtraining" Mantra is an Excuse for not doing the work & Sucking Up the PAIN , in 99% of all cases that I have ever seen .

    If yorue Busting your Workout EVERY SINGLE DAY on the same Bodyparts , like a LOT of ppl used to do , then yeah , youre going to be Overtraining , but I dont know ANYONE that does that any more , and Rest is pretty Universal in the Plan of most Lifters these days
  3. The Wastrel is offline
    The Wastrel's Avatar

    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    9,620

    Posted On:
    10/22/2003 5:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Djimbe,
    You gotta understand that sometimes people are coming from different places. Ronin was in the Army, and so was I, and overtraining IS the problem. So maybe that's why he, and to a lesser extent I, seem so concerned about it.

    It's hard sometimes to put oneself in the position of the person who just needs to get started in the first place. But of course, general advice should always be targeted at that sort of person.

    Certainly, a general rule for any message board is that most of the posters don't need to worry about overtraining...: )
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  4. FingerorMoon? is offline

    The man they call FoM

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    3,592

    Posted On:
    10/22/2003 10:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Its best because of HOW its constructed , its made up of Three different Protiens that your Body Digests at Different Rates , and it stays in you for Three Hours , continuously working that whole time . the fact that you get it in Liquid Form is a Bonus , less Hassle for your Digestion . Its best taken before Bedtime , and again if you wake in the middle of the Night (More tthan 3 hours later) .
    Okay, this needs to be drilled.

    Taking protein in liquid form is something the bodybuilding industry thrives on, its their cash cow. All the bodybuilding magazines are either owned by or rely on revenue from the supplement companies.

    Your body can NOT take in large amounts of protein in liquid form. What happens is it uses what it needs to immediatley, and dumps the rest.

    Ever noticed when you drink a lot of protein shakes you need to go to the toilet a lot more ?
    The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
    - Pizdoff
  5. Djimbe is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    2,058

    Posted On:
    10/23/2003 1:40am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by FingerorMoon?
    Okay, this needs to be drilled.


    Wow , was that supposed to be Mocking/Taunting ? You can do better . I have faith in you .

    Taking protein in liquid form is something the bodybuilding industry thrives on, its their cash cow. All the bodybuilding magazines are either owned by or rely on revenue from the supplement companies.


    While it may be true that Suppliment Companies are the Economic Driving force behind the BBing Industry , that does not instantly make ALL of their Products Useless or Bogus . While they come out with a New Trendy Thing every so often , definately , but the Staples are Tried and True , and have Legit Benifits .

    Your body can NOT take in large amounts of protein in liquid form.


    Can you produce a Legit study on this that was actually performed on HUMANS , and not Houseccats ? Liquid form is just the same as any other to your Body , in fact , its BETTER , it removes the need for Mastication .

    What happens is it uses what it needs to immediatley, and dumps the rest.


    Your body takes in Proportionate amounts of Protien to its Size , and building Needs . Differing TYPES of Protein , with Different Makeups are broken down at Different Rates by your Digestinve Tract . "Large Amounts" is a VERY Subjective , and Variable Term , considering Body Size , Metabolic Rate , Workload , etc. . Its long been known that the best way to take your meals is in 6-8 parts/day so , If I WERE eating my Daily Proteing Allowance , it would be in Smaller Chunks so that I wouldnt Pee it out . Its also known that as we Sleep we can take in more , because the Slowing of our Digestive Processes allows for it .

    Ever noticed when you drink a lot of protein shakes you need to go to the toilet a lot more ?
    Umm , no . You are probably using an Product which includes Aspartame and have an Adverse Reaction to it , or you are Lactose Intolerant .
  6. FingerorMoon? is offline

    The man they call FoM

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    3,592

    Posted On:
    10/23/2003 2:39am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow , was that supposed to be Mocking/Taunting ? You can do better . I have faith in you .
    Eh? To be honest I didn't even realise it was you that used it when I first put it up there. I just liked it and used it. No offense was meant.

    While it may be true that Suppliment Companies are the Economic Driving force behind the BBing Industry , that does not instantly make ALL of their Products Useless or Bogus . While they come out with a New Trendy Thing every so often , definately , but the Staples are Tried and True , and have Legit Benifits .
    Many, many supplements in the US are illegal in Australia because of the tighter laws here. The US companies have a lot more trouble getting their bogus and useless supplements on the shelf.

    I agree with you the staples are generally tried and true. I didn't say protein powder was useless, I said the amounts that are advertised that should be taken are exaggerated (which is likely true of most of the tried and true staples - I have read a few studies claiming that the whole creatine scare of it causing kidney damage, is not due to the product itself but due to the recommended dosages on the product - yeah I know supposedly you can drink more water and be fine).

    Can you produce a Legit study on this that was actually performed on HUMANS , and not Houseccats ? Liquid form is just the same as any other to your Body , in fact , its BETTER , it removes the need for Mastication .
    Nope, I haven't kept the online source.
    I believe it may have been printed in the Stuart McRoberts book Beyond Brawn.

    Anyone can play like that though.
    Please produce a legitmate study on humans that proves that 1.5-2 grams of protein per lb is needed.
    The study should be on humans (of course), it shouldn't be funded (in part or in full ) by a supplement company.

    And please make sure the study examines whether the same increase in muscle mass does not occur when the extra protein is substituted for EFAs or carbs so that we can know for sure that it is in fact protein and not just protein making up the extra calories it takes for muscles to grow.
    This is by far the most important part of the study.

    I've seen countless books that display those same numbers in grams but in comparison to kg of body weight - when it should obviously be totally different. People should also be taking into account that it isn't g per lbs of bodyweight, its g per pound of lean muscle mass.

    Umm , no . You are probably using an Product which includes Aspartame and have an Adverse Reaction to it , or you are Lactose Intolerant .
    Nah, I use Aspartame free (least it says it is) and lactose free higher grade WPIs.

    Still its nice to be arguing this with someone whose argument doesn't consist of 'the people on this bodybuilding site say...'
    What is your background ?
    Last edited by FingerorMoon?; 10/23/2003 2:42am at .
    The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
    - Pizdoff
  7. Djimbe is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    2,058

    Posted On:
    10/23/2003 4:47am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by FingerorMoon?


    Many, many supplements in the US are illegal in Australia because of the tighter laws here. The US companies have a lot more trouble getting their bogus and useless supplements on the shelf.


    Actually , most of the Suppliment Companies are eithert not From , or Moving Away from the states at this Point , as the USFDA regulations are getting more and More Silly . Going by whats "Legal" and "Illegal" in any Particular Region is bollocks , I doont think that there is ANY Governing body with a clear View of the Suppliment picture .

    I agree with you the staples are generally tried and true. I didn't say protein powder was useless, I said the amounts that are advertised that should be taken are exaggerated (which is likely true of most of the tried and true staples - I have read a few studies claiming that the whole creatine scare of it causing kidney damage, is not due to the product itself but due to the recommended dosages on the product - yeah I know supposedly you can drink more water and be fine).


    Well , Im only aware that they come in Serving Sizes , not that there are any Reccomendations made by Manufacturers about Dosages (at least on Protien) . In fact , Im pretty certain that its Forbidden in most countries .


    Anyone can play like that though.
    Please produce a legitmate study on humans that proves that 1.5-2 grams of protein per lb is needed.
    The study should be on humans (of course), it shouldn't be funded (in part or in full ) by a supplement company.


    Im not even going to look . Why ? Because the ramifications of what IM saying is a litle extra Expenditure , and the Ramifications of what YOURE saying is an Actual Health Scare . Besides "Need" studies are usu about Minimum Nutritional Requirements , in other terms , just enough to keep your Heart Beating . But you knew that already . Whereas Health Risk Studies are all about the actual Damage done by any particular Product .

    I've seen countless books that display those same numbers in grams but in comparison to kg of body weight - when it should obviously be totally different. People should also be taking into account that it isn't g per lbs of bodyweight, its g per pound of lean muscle mass.


    Well , a LOT of Calcs fly about , I was using the one that got me to be the Size/Strength that I am , not the one that geets reccomended by Little ppl . Everyone that I know thats Truly massive , now OR Historically , ate a LOT more Protein than the average Physique Model . Myself , and all of he people that i have Trained/Trained with over the Years have had Success in Strength gains , and I was offering the breadth of that Experience .

    Nah, I use Aspartame free (least it says it is) and lactose free higher grade WPIs.


    Umm , Whey is a Milk Byproduct , no ?

    Still its nice to be arguing this with someone whose argument doesn't consist of 'the people on this bodybuilding site say...'

    What is your background ?

    Ive been Lifting for 15 years , and I am 6'6"/1.99m tall , and I weigh 385 lbs/175kg
  8. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    20,894

    Posted On:
    10/23/2003 6:48am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Djimbe,
    You big SOB you !!! :)
    My concerns over "overtraining" are not just concerned with weight lifting, but a person's exercise schedule in whole.
    I see alot of guys working out 5 days in a roll, alternating their MA with ST.
    And complaining that they are NOT making any gains.
    What did you squat last week? last month? last year?
    Have you progressed alot? a bit? nothing?
    If you are not progressing, what are you doing? right?
    And some guys will workout even though their bodies are still SORE from the workout, I mean Sore.
    EX: you do squats, next day you are so sore you can't sit down without bitching, would you work out? would you kick the bag?
    Some guys still do.
    If you are working out 4-5 days a week, and your are NOT making progress, do you need to workout more??
    You are a big boy, how much do you bench? squat? deadlift?
    And when was the last time your weight in those lifts increased?
  9. Matt W. is offline
    Matt W.'s Avatar

    Community Corrections Officer

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    3,621

    Posted On:
    10/23/2003 8:05am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Umm, could we bring this back to ME please! *ahem*

    A coupla things...

    I really don't think overtraining is my problem. Muscle soreness isn't a factor (the first 2 weeks it was, but that's because I hadn't worked out seriously for a while). But I did find this interesting...

    I see alot of guys working out 5 days in a roll
    Well, I do workout 4 or 5 days in a row. But the workouts really are quite varied, and nor more the 2 hours at a time. I am seeing gains in the weight room, and cardio gains as well. So is this really a problem for me? Is it not a problem right now, but something I should be carefull doesn't become one?

    Also, re: protein supps... I haven't got one yet, but probably will. Does it matter when I take it? Should I take it before lifting or wrestling? Also, I am not looking to put on weight. I am looking to lose weight, or at least, replace fat with muscle. How will protein supps affect that?

    Thanks,
    Matt
  10. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    20,894

    Posted On:
    10/23/2003 8:19am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you are making gains, that is what matters.
    When you peak or no longer make gains is when you MAY be overtraining.
    Normally you can train 4-5 even 6 days in a row, IF you vary the intensity of the training and DON'T train when you are sore or tired.
    Now what kind of gains have you been making in the weight room? I choose to measure ST gains, because they are easier to measure than aerobic gains.
    Protein supplements really are the only thing you need to add if you have a balanced diet to begin with.
    Everyone is diffrent and some people can workout in ways that would burn out others.
    What you need to keep in mind is that everytime you workout, your whole body works out, so it MIGHT be benefitial to have an "off" day in the middle of your workout week.
    Protein shakes are best AFTER a workout within the first hour I believe.
    To help in the rebulding process, remember, you get stronger during your "rest/recovery" phase.
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12 345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.