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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/28/2010 9:43pm

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh and this was polite and helpful how?

    Just to let you all know that Sigung Leo Sebregts Passed away yesterday on the 27th of October 2010, no matter what people may comment on the authenticity of his style or lineage Sigung Leo introduced and created a huge awareness in South Africa of Chinese Kung Fu. No matter what else is said about him that cannot be refuted.
    It wasn't and it got this entire thread moved to YMAS.
  2. JGQ is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2011 9:21am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi People,

    I'm new here, probably won't be around often if i am again.

    I was hoping to point out some aspects I've found interesting:

    Master Leo started his school in 1968, which is prior to the popularization of kung fu brought in my bruce lee in 1970's. Which also explains why he only taught asian students in china town when he started. It seems strange to me that someone would open a mcdojo without the actual market to rape for new students. I don't know of any school that is older in SA.

    With regards to the style of hung gar, as you can see from the description there are 3 forms of Hung gar, and they are exactly that, forms of hung gar as taught within the family system, not true hug gar. This is not a strange practice. Master wong (who i have the utmost respect for) trains many different styles e.g. his mantis style i saw his son perform a few years back, baji, tai chi, these are not entire systems but forms from the systems (to use an example already mentioned). There are many styles of martial arts that have one form called "baji" or "black tiger" that are not the entire system but simply forms based on the original style to teach specific concepts within the family system they are taught.

    From my understanding they also had contact with Lilly Lau (Southern Eagle) as well as Brendan Lai (Northern Mantis), many years ago, what was learnt from them is not known as they do not teach outside of their system (with the exception of the contemporary styles). Most mcdojo's would really play up a connection like that, especially if they had the pics to back it.

    From a sanda / whushu point of view, i do not expect their students to beat the local SA contemporary stylists, i.e. Yang Li Hau. She is a very accomplished whushu instructor and did time teaching self defense in the chinese military if memory serves, as well as featuring on the beijing whushu team. The students training at this school would obviously have a huge advantage as they have years of additional experience. Contemporary styles (whushu as well as sanda) are fairly new to the school, so it will take a few years to get the standard up.

    Contemporary styles do change and are not fixed, certain poses e.g. the kick in nan-chaun can be performed in different ways (I've seen guys land on their knees, on the ground with the leg extended, standing with the leg extended). The routines have also changed over the years, this can be seen by checking footage of early comps.

    http://www.beijingwushuteam.com/ -- this site use to have old clips on it, i see the format has changed, if you are interested you can still look around, not sure if they are still there. But i am by no means an expert in any of these fields, just an enthusiast.


    With regards to Wu Bin coming back, I'm not sure if he did, I do know that the school sends students over to china quite often to train in the whushu styles endorsed by their overseas sister school.

    I trained with master Leo many years ago, and i had nothing but respect for him. I for one will always miss him, which is why i felt i had to post. My only regret is i will never have the opportunity to train with him again.

    I don't think anyone will ever get to the bottom of the lineage thing, but i do recommend you go watch Frank and Bruce move and apply their knowledge.

    With regards to performing well in the ring. I still do not subscribe to the notion that ring fighting is the same as the street. There is a lot of carry over, but it's not the same. This can be seen in many styles, most prominently boxing i believe. Boxing has evolved to peak for which it is designed (ring fighting). The way they stand, jab, etc. Is not designed to just eliminate an opponent, but to score points, to maintain endurance for many rounds, etc. Each style of fighting will evolve until it has become the most efficient for it's target. When rules change, styles of fighting change. Boxing as an example again, when they started using gloves they started using a flat fist as apposed to an upright fist because boxers could pack more punch without breaking a fist. I know the MMA guys hate this argument (the dark lord of BAJI being one ... i think he use to post here). heh. In the street you cannot assume anything about your opponent, you don't know how he's going to come at you, or what he know or does not know. You never know what kind of environment you are going to be fighting on, all these variable changes how we train for the street vs. the ring where we know what kind of opponent we will be facing. My point of that diatribe? The school's fighters not doing so well is explain by the fact that they have not been competing in the sport for many years (sanda).

    There are many schools i liked that i've seen here:

    For contemporary Whushu: Yang Li Hau (although i'm not sure if she's still in the country).
    Wing Chun: Dean Jones (I believe he also does some knife fighting that's good, but i haven't seen any of it).
    AMOK: for knife fighting.
    Jow Gar: Master Raymond Keung.
    Choy Li Fut: Eduan Barnard (also not sure if he's still in the country, i think his students still are).
    Master Wong: I'm not sure what specific style he teaches, i believe it's more of a combination. His son looks good from Demo's but i don't know how focused he is, he is still young.
    Systema: Vladimir Vasiliev
    Hot Box Gym: Colin Nathan.

    Just to name a few .... i've been out of things for many years, so the players might have changed.
  3. Recci is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/13/2012 11:40am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kung-fu, Underground

    -4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So much has be written about Leo and his boys, these are the hard facts for the wet behind your ears students past or present. Leo was a business man and a someone who used energy ceremonies and rituals to get his students to obey him. He used sourcery and other techniques to create many illusions and false things from his students and those who were ignorant. I know this as I was his student many moons ago, in my line of work in military you get to know and understand people very well. He tried healing arts whilst utilizing entities and demons to help him, his little sons do the same. They believe they are superior and think they can pull the wool over people's eyes. The best way is to speak and contact the earlier students even those before frank and the baby bruce were teenagers. The training was good back in the 70's then it all changed in the 90's as Leo and family felt very threatened by their own students, as their own students were becoming better than them. Usual thing with most egotistic teachers like that family, if you look at all their past students that left them, those students excelled better than Leo and his sons. I challenge anyone to speak to the older generation of students and they have many truths to share about the Sebregts. Facts are facts, the suffer from abuse issues and like to make there students and those they meet fear them, as they live off fear of others, old trick in martial arts. Amazingly enough bruce has gotten his ass kicked behind closed doors, so don't believe everything they say. Some one should do their homework and investigate how legitimate their competition they attend as world champions, some of the competitions bruce claims to be world championships are merely little competitions. My one teacher showed me some of the footage of the competitions they entered and well if you the only competitor in a division you sure to get gold, so easy to win. Local competitions they entered only into categories they had not much competition. In 1992 I went to look at their competition in Johannesburg South Africa whilst I was visiting there, bruce and frank entered forms that they had no competitors, the one category bruces own student beat him in some sword form. Frank got a good hiding from one of their other students couple of levels below him. In the 70's many other stories can be said about Leo. Research your stuff about the people, it was. Good system as it help me in my military training abroad. It all changed when their own students became a threat to them, they are spitiful people. They like to prey on what they think is the innocent and weak. All started catching up to them from two years ago. They on the down hill, you can see it from the competitions thy go to, demonstrations when I have been in china. Put them in an arena where the opponent knows the same or more of the physical and what is known as the dark arts and they will be taken out. You can't run away from the truth and you are starting to be exposed even more. All the school heads do your homework and when you free yourself from their illusion they have entrapped you in then you will realise how they have lied, cheated and conned you into believing one thing yet they can't up hold their own rules thy set on others. A cult is just like that, so if you want to be a sucker and their door mat stay and one day you will realise how better you are than them. Oh and another thing they say they have Chinese heritage, their frank and bruce moms maiden name was Vok that's not Chinese, trust me I speak Chinese
    Last edited by Recci; 11/13/2012 11:48am at . Reason: Added more
  4. Mor Sao is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/13/2012 12:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: Jook Lum South Mantis,

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    you necro a thread to say that they practice sorcery and witchcraft?

    You need to learn what the return key does as well.

    One long paragraph sucks to read.







  5. Recci is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/13/2012 12:55pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kung-fu, Underground

    -3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Karma is a bitch
  6. Recci is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/13/2012 1:06pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kung-fu, Underground

    -2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As they say when you have first hand experience then you know what they get up to. O if you going to comment make ure you trained with them for years as a senior student o know what they are. Cheers enjoy your trip
  7. Mor Sao is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/13/2012 1:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: Jook Lum South Mantis,

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    you are a nothing more than another cupcake mouthboxer.

    No video.

    No proof other than some rantings on a forum

    No posting up who exactly you are, your name as used when training under these people. Nothing other than conjecture and hearsay.

    Whatever, cupcake.







  8. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/13/2012 4:58pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mmmmmm....cupcakes...
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/13/2012 5:09pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Recci View Post
    So much has be written about Leo and his boys, these are the hard facts for the wet behind your ears students past or present. Leo was a business man and a someone who used energy ceremonies and rituals to get his students to obey him. He used sourcery and other techniques to create many illusions and false things from his students and those who were ignorant. I know this as I was his student many moons ago, in my line of work in military you get to know and understand people very well. He tried healing arts whilst utilizing entities and demons to help him, his little sons do the same. They believe they are superior and think they can pull the wool over people's eyes. The best way is to speak and contact the earlier students even those before frank and the baby bruce were teenagers. The training was good back in the 70's then it all changed in the 90's as Leo and family felt very threatened by their own students, as their own students were becoming better than them. Usual thing with most egotistic teachers like that family, if you look at all their past students that left them, those students excelled better than Leo and his sons. I challenge anyone to speak to the older generation of students and they have many truths to share about the Sebregts. Facts are facts, the suffer from abuse issues and like to make there students and those they meet fear them, as they live off fear of others, old trick in martial arts. Amazingly enough bruce has gotten his ass kicked behind closed doors, so don't believe everything they say. Some one should do their homework and investigate how legitimate their competition they attend as world champions, some of the competitions bruce claims to be world championships are merely little competitions. My one teacher showed me some of the footage of the competitions they entered and well if you the only competitor in a division you sure to get gold, so easy to win. Local competitions they entered only into categories they had not much competition. In 1992 I went to look at their competition in Johannesburg South Africa whilst I was visiting there, bruce and frank entered forms that they had no competitors, the one category bruces own student beat him in some sword form. Frank got a good hiding from one of their other students couple of levels below him. In the 70's many other stories can be said about Leo. Research your stuff about the people, it was. Good system as it help me in my military training abroad. It all changed when their own students became a threat to them, they are spitiful people. They like to prey on what they think is the innocent and weak. All started catching up to them from two years ago. They on the down hill, you can see it from the competitions thy go to, demonstrations when I have been in china. Put them in an arena where the opponent knows the same or more of the physical and what is known as the dark arts and they will be taken out. You can't run away from the truth and you are starting to be exposed even more. All the school heads do your homework and when you free yourself from their illusion they have entrapped you in then you will realise how they have lied, cheated and conned you into believing one thing yet they can't up hold their own rules thy set on others. A cult is just like that, so if you want to be a sucker and their door mat stay and one day you will realise how better you are than them. Oh and another thing they say they have Chinese heritage, their frank and bruce moms maiden name was Vok that's not Chinese, trust me I speak Chinese
    You know what? repeatedly typing "facts" or "fact" doesn't make it a "fact."
  10. Recci is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2012 12:51am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kung-fu, Underground

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So much has be written about Leo and his boys, these are the hard facts for the wet behind your ears students past or present. Leo was a business man and a someone who used energy ceremonies and rituals to get his students to obey him. He used sourcery and other techniques to create many illusions and false things from his students and those who were ignorant.

    I know this as I was his student many moons ago, in my line of work in military you get to know and understand people very well. He tried healing arts whilst utilizing entities and demons to help him, his little sons do the same. They believe they are superior and think they can pull the wool over people's eyes. The best way is to speak and contact the earlier students even those before frank and the baby bruce were teenagers. The training was good back in the 70's then it all changed in the 90's as Leo and family felt very threatened by their own students, as their own students were becoming better than them.

    Usual thing with most egotistic teachers like that family, if you look at all their past students that left them, those students excelled better than Leo and his sons. I challenge anyone to speak to the older generation of students and they have many truths to share about the Sebregts. Facts are facts, the suffer from abuse issues and like to make there students and those they meet fear them, as they live off fear of others, old trick in martial arts. Amazingly enough bruce has gotten his ass kicked behind closed doors, so don't believe everything they say.

    Some one should do their homework and investigate how legitimate their competition they attend as world champions, some of the competitions bruce claims to be world championships are merely little competitions. My one teacher showed me some of the footage of the competitions they entered and well if you the only competitor in a division you sure to get gold, so easy to win. Local competitions they entered only into categories they had not much competition.

    In 1992 I went to look at their competition in Johannesburg South Africa whilst I was visiting there, bruce and frank entered forms that they had no competitors, the one category bruces own student beat him in some sword form. Bruce got a good hiding and his mommy wanted to stop the fight because brucy got his nose all bloody, all on video.

    Frank got a good hiding from one of their other students couple of levels below him he gothis ribs broken. In the 92 competition bruce took one of his students certificate and add his name to it after the IKF representative asked bruce to write his students name on the certificate. The same student beat bruce in a southern form, bruce added his own name to it.

    In the 70's many other stories can be said about Leo. Research your stuff about the people, it was. Good system as it help me in my military training abroad. It all changed when their own students became a threat to them, they are spitiful people. They like to prey on what they think is the innocent and weak. All started catching up to them from two years ago and four years before that, karma has caught up to them, what you have done is returning to bite you in your butt and your entire life.

    They on the down hill, you can see it from the competitions thy go to, demonstrations when I have been in china. Put them in an arena where the opponent knows the same or more of the physical and what is known as the dark arts and they will be taken out. You can't run away from the truth and you are starting to be exposed even more.

    All the school heads do your homework and when you free yourself from their illusion they have entrapped you in then you will realise how they have lied, cheated and conned you into believing one thing yet they can't up hold their own rules thy set on others. A cult is just like that, so if you want to be a sucker and their door mat stay and one day you will realise how better you are than them.

    Oh and another thing they say they have Chinese heritage, their frank and bruce moms maiden name was Vok that's not Chinese, trust me I speak Chinese. If you a past student then comment, past students know the truth, we building a case to expose the liars and dark ways they are.

    We also collecting evidence from all past lady students that would like to comment about their experiences when they were left alone with Leo who they trusted as their teacher and mentor, they were mislead by him. frank you would remember very well, there was an issue where the girl in question spoke out and a case was going to be open against your daddy.

    If you wondering who I am? I hide in the shadows until the only thing you see is eye contact and then you screwed, the way of the clan.
    Last edited by Recci; 11/17/2012 1:36am at .
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