They are fraudsters who teach rubbish, and they teach it badly. I have been around in chinese gong fu for a while, and visited the place in Johannesburg, and trained for a while before I knew any better, and found a real teacher.
They teach made up styles, and label them as something else, but their poor students are brainwashed beyond belief into believeing they are doing something authentic. Whats even worse is their claim of teaching competition wushu, which sadly is even worse than their so called traditional system.
The so called accreditations are false too. The International Kung Fu Federation is a proven collection of frausters and McDojo's trying to sound like a legitimate federation, but the fact is ANYONE can join, just sign up and pay and presto you are an "accredited member/master". The World Martial Arts Hall of Fame, is a collection of fraudsters trying to give each other kudo's by "granting" hall of fame titles on each other, but no one knows who endorses the so called Hall nor how nominations and decisions are made, but take a close look and you will see the same people who run the Hall, have different members of their own schools getting these bullshit accolades bestowed on them. More value in a grilled cheese sandwich.
I have since studied with some real chinese gong fu teachers, and witnessed what a real professional competition wushu teacher can teach, and these guys are not only sub par, but sub beginner level, yet they teach...........
Their system is trash, calling it Hung Gar, I have seen their forms and that is anything but Hung Gar, and the wing chun is as far from wing chun as bananas are to chocolate brownies.
I wish people would do research before believing any old trash they read. These guys have made a fortune with their fake kung fu dynasty,
Last month there was a local kung fu tournament in my town here, I went through to watch some of the sanda, and this school sucked horribly. The fact is that most of the shools were very poor at combat, but these guys were just the same, and the students of theirs who managed to win their fights, either did so because their opponents ran out of steam first, or by some fluke of nature where an injury occurs due to lack of conditioning. The fights were down right pathetic, and these guys claim to be "world sanda champions"? Anyone with an internet connection can go to youtube and see what the chinese standard of sanda is, and its tough to beat, yet these skill lacking teachers claim to be better......I would pay good money to see that, but based on what they produce from their students, this claim is as empty as theur gong fu is.
Stay away, stay far away from this bullshido!
Thanks for this - it is as I expected -
I have met a few people who train at this school since I first posted.
For the most part I was regaled with stories of how Si Fu can do this and Si Fu can do that.
put me off a little.
Where do you currently train?
I for one would like hennie to show the sources of his information and reveal his current Teacher too? For all he says at this moment it is still personal opinion and not much more.
As for his description of the fights "ran out of steam"," lack of conditioning" would mean their opponents were fitter and more conditioned if either is true then the loser's weren't fit to be in the ring or worse unertrained and unqualified. The One Thing Shaolin Martial Arts centre doesn't lack for is fitness and conditioning or at least the school I attend.
I'm far from brainwashed either,
I will say that the tournament he most likely went to see was the first National tournament that has been organised in a long time and this is due to the schools trying to sort out the politics between schools to give an even grounding for guys to compete . If the Quality seemed a little lacklustre to Hennie Maybe it's because many of the schools and participants aren't used to competing on a national level because of the politics I expect as with all national and hopefully future international competition the standard will get better.
I don't say that everything that is said by Shaolin Martial arts Centre is true, fiction exists in every martial art school and controversy exist in even the most steadfast of styles as to the correct origin or path that martial art has travelled, But I also wouldn't say their styles are made up.
I'd say I've had equal exposure to Gung fu in South Africa as Hennie has, I've visited a few schools all around our area and even different branches of the same school Until I found A Sifu and school which suited my personality. I still Visit other schools especially "New" ones from time to time to see what is taught and how.
I Have seen footage of tournaments all around the world I've seen acredited school demonstrations of Hung Gar with lineages up the Wazu perform a form by the same name that is completely different between the two schools. The only Uniform thing I've seen in "Kung Fu" is Modern Wushu and even then I've seen five different forms that are all "the official Gun SHu " form all performed completely differently the only thing completely the same was the person performing held a staff.
I will say what I've seen all over the world in Martial Arts is guys who don't gel with a school and move on to another school that does suit their personality better and them go on to try discredit the previous school based on nothing more then the right school for the right person.
Recently I heard of a Shidoan from a Choy Le Fat School who had taught here for many years and went abroad for some time had returned and his biggest concern was cleaning up the Schools to a more original format of Choy Le Fat that he had taught. A lot of what he didn't like was simply students adapting concepts to fit with their body makeup and having placed their own personality into forms and techniques and were still teaching what he had taught them with their own personality attached. However it wasn't the way he would have done it. Does this suddenly make what they were teaching fake or is it a natural progression of the art ?
Look I am not saying that what they teach is ineffective.
What I am saying is this
If you say you teach Style A then you should teach Style A.
From what I have seen the Hung Gar is not Hung Gar
and from what Hennie says the Wing Chun is not Wing Chun.
Where differences come in from teacher A's Hung Gar to teacher B's Hung Gar is branch based.
One is Lam Sai Wing and the other is a branch from Taipei
(This is my understanding and I stand to be corrected).
Both come from the same source and are traceable back to that source.
However the 4 pillars are always taught. This is what makes Hung Gar Hung Gar
Ask your Si Fu which branch of hung gar is taught at your school
also ask him about the Wing Chun system.
Google Hung Gar or wing Chun. You will get back a WEALTH of information on these systems.
Google Leong cheung
http://www.yaukungmun.com.au/grandma...ung_cheung.htm <-- is this your Si Fu's teacher?
and as far as the IKF is concerned it is well known that these organizations are generally hangouts for frauds
Gac1 firstly grow up, what is PERSONAL about my comments?, your comments arent helping your argument at all. You want my sources? I wasted 2 years of my life at your place. I have friends who wasted over 10 years of their lives there, and they admit it. My teacher was Wang Guang Quan, before he left SA, and since I have gone to Shenzhen, China to teach english, where I studied with a few southern masters, all very good. I also trained in sanda with the local group.
By saying lack of steam, i meant BOTH competitors. Its just that someone runs out first. The quality was piss poor on all levels, but the guys from that school were extremely atrocious, lacking even basic punching techniques. Now for a school that claims to have "world Sanda champions" teaching, isnt it odd? Secondly, Sanda has 3 main techniques, punch, kick, and throw/wrestle. NO ONE KNEW A SINGLE THROW. Anyone with any real sanda knowledge knows basic throw, or you wont win a fight in any real competition. In fact, you would get wasted on the street without these basics too.
I went to an event last year, in fourways, and the level was really good from a couple of schools, some even doing real sanda, but the guys from your school got destroyed even worse then. This year, I didnt see some of those better fighters at the event, and I dont know why.
As for your comment on politics, it seems like your school creates most of the politics in SA it complains about. This is what I have learnt talking to various different schools here. Makes sense though looking at the way they try to portray themselves, that they would have "politics". But what you are saying in short is that the fighters from your school arent good because they havent had a chance to compete? Do you know how silly that sounds?
Your problem is you have only seen schools in SA, and the real quality teachers in SA arent mainstream. The problem in SA is that 99% of the teachers are ex students or branch holders for your sigung before, and now they are doing their own thing, but following the same recipe, with the same lack of real gong fu lineage, or technique. Which schools have you visited?
Saying that all the Hung Gar you have seen is completely different shows how little you actually know about the style, and what lack of understanding of technique you have. INTRICACIES change between different lineages, but the core is the same, and the 4 pillars are there. You can see the same techniques, all through with different intricacies. Secondy, trying to say that international competition wushu routines are all done differently shows that you actually havent seen anyone do that either. Go to youtube, type in any world wushu championship (ie 2003) and check all the staff forms, and you will see it is 99% exactly the same. The only time it would differ is if someone who shouldnt be teaching it has taught it wrong. Thats why they are called STANDARDIZED QUAN.
Also, a style is a style because of its principles and concepts, you cant change the core to suit you and think its OK, because that would many times go against the principles of the style or movement. A little difference in intricacies is fine, but not a complete change, otherwise whats the point of that style? If the head teacher is unhappy about how the style has changed, it obviously means that those teaching under him werent qualified or ready to teach it yet, so yes IT IS FAKE.
If using the excuse that "people dont gel with a school" makes you feel better, so be it. What we are saying is they arent teaching what they say they are, its a lie, and what they do teach (ie wushu) they are not qualified to teach and teach it badly, therefore wasting peoples time. If someone wants to do Hung Gar or Wing Chun, they should be taught that, not told thats what it is but then they find out later that it isnt.
Tell me, name any of your wingchun forms that you do? Name any Hung Gar forms? No comment eh? that should answer your questions.
As for the IKF, it is a group of fraudsters. Birds of a feather.....
I am now wondering if we can say this place is fake based purely on the forms.
The reason I say this is because there ARE some little-known systems of Wing Chun and Hung Gar out there that are legit, yet are not the "mainstream" versions.
Hong Kong wing chun isn't the only one. It's the most famous, yes, but there are several from the mainland which are equally authentic. There is Gu Lao Wing Chun which doesn't have ANY forms at all! And then there are Jee Shim wing chun and Pao Fa Lien wing chun, both of which have many more forms than the Hong Kong version.
Where did Sebregts's teacher, Leong Cheung, come from? Was it Hong Kong or Mainland China. If it was Mainland China, then he may well have learned one of these obscure wing chun branches.
I also noticed there was some association with Brendan Lai.
Wouldn't he have known if they were fakes?
Thats not the case here shmuel..............
O.K. I'm a Karate fan and think Kung Fu is a nice performance art(from a Karate guy ?!?)
Anywat Sifu Sebregts has been around since I can remember, that's about 20years now and I'm sure he was around before then. He is MR.Kung Fu in South Africa as far as I'm concerned. He knows his stuff and he ain't no phoney.
Anyway I've only heard good stuff from this specific school UNLIKE the Ninjer club up the road from Cresta.
Enjoy and have fun. And if you can get the money together for a trip to China then go for it with all your might IMHO.
Last edited by D-Meister; 9/05/2008 5:01am at .
So because he has been around for a while it is legit? .........Performance art? Isnt that interesting, sound like you sure know alot about gong fu from thats statement.....
Did he make up the styles that he teaches?
Or did he at least learn them from this Leung Chung man?