Shaolin Martial Art Centre - Johannesburg & Buccleuch, South Africa

[Gac1]

Thanks for the posts.

I am not saying your school is fake ... just pointing out that the IKF website and others like it are not any sign of authenticity. In general, all these "Halls of Fame" and "Grandmaster Councils" are a hang-out spot for the frauds of the world. For example, anyone who is part of the World Head of Families Soke Council is regarded as suspicious.

If performance wushu is not the main focus, what styles of Northern and Southern Shaolin are taught?

Finally, don't let associations with China sway your judgement. These days, many of the biggest frauds are the Chinese themselves, who teach modern wushu and pass it off as genuine kung fu. Even the Shaolin Temple itself is nothing more than a huge commercial hoax with its fake monks who are just athletic coaches in disguise.

The style taught as said before is Lin Wan Kuen from the leong Cheun Family system as the main style it has been merged with wing chun. Performance Kung fu is a part of whats taught simply because it's called for at international competitions. Our system teaches the standard animal systems and forms as part of the traditional forms and theirs a huge emphasis on what you're doing and where it comes from and the practicality of it. It is taught that the performance Wushu is about showmanship and not about practicasl self defense. When learning Tiger, crane etc techniques we are taught what is practical for the class room and what is practical for a street situation.


I must say i didn't step into this school and accept that every thing that they sell you is verbatim the truth. I've spent my lifetime in and out of Dojo's and Kwoons and know what is sales hype and what in convinient crap and what is plain bullshit. It's there and I'm aware of it. Although I've never trained harder in any other system and as smartly. Theirs also a lack of pretentiousness among the senior students which is refreshing compared to many of the schools I've been involved in.

[shmuel]

Lin Wan Kuen means "Continuous Returning Fist" but it is the name of a form and not a style! I have never heard of an entire style with that name.

Where do the animal systems fit in with this? You mentioned tiger and crane for example. Is this Hung Gar or something else?

And you also mentioned Wing Chun. Where does that fit in?

[Gac1]

Yep the Tiger systems are refered to an Hung Gar

[shmuel]

Yep the Tiger systems are refered to an Hung Gar

If it's genuine Hung Gar, it will contain the following 4 forms:

-Taming the Tiger in an I pattern
-Tiger & Crane double shape fist
- Ten Pattern Fist
- Iron Wire Fist

Are they taught?

And regarding Wing Chun, if it's genuine Wing Chun, then it will have the following 3 forms:
- Siu nim Tao
- Chum Kiu
- Bil jee

Are they taught?

[Gac1]

If it's genuine Hung Gar, it will contain the following 4 forms:

-Taming the Tiger in an I pattern
-Tiger & Crane double shape fist
- Ten Pattern Fist
- Iron Wire Fist

Are they taught?

And regarding Wing Chun, if it's genuine Wing Chun, then it will have the following 3 forms:
- Siu nim Tao
- Chum Kiu
- Bil jee

Are they taught?

You're out of my league at this Point Shmuel I have only been training for a short time within the system

below extracts of forms taught as given on the Shaolin Site They are given with greater description on this Page http://www.shaolin.co.za/courses.htm

The Wushu forms aren't listed

But these include

Quan Shou
Nan Chuan
Ten Chuan
Gun Shu

1st Form
2nd Form
4th Form
The short staff
Unarmed short staff form
1st staff form
2nd staff form
3rd staff form
4th staff form
1st tiger form

2nd tiger form
3rd tiger form
Monkey form
Crane form
Three animal form
Lau gar form
Nine sectional whip
Choi li fut spear
Deer horn hooks
Shaolin Spear

Broadsword

Saber Sword
Ring blades form
Trident spear

Kwan-

dao form
Double Daggers
Bugua internal form
Bugua straight sword
Bugua Spear
Tri-sectional staff

From the school page http://www.shaolin.co.za/schools.html

Instructors:
All instructors are qualified to instruct Chinese kung fu / Wushu in the following styles:


Hung Gar {Tiger style} Traditional

Ba Hok Pai {White Crane style} Traditional

Nan Chaun {Wushu}Chen Chaun {Wushu}Quan Chu {Wushu}

Straight Sword Routine {Wushu}

Wu Tai Chi

Modern Mantis {Wushu}

Shaolin Monk Staff {Shaolin}

Shaolin Broadsword {Shaolin}
Lau Gar {Traditional}
Choi Lai Fut Spear {Traditional}
Choi Lai Fut Lion DancingTraditional Family System Leong Chueng {Si Gung Teacher}Iron Dummy {Iron Fist Traditional}

Any further pursuit of the genuiness in terms of your understanding of the concept I think would need to be reffered to the heads of the Shaolin Centre

contact details can be found on this link

http://www.shaolin.co.za/contact_us.html

[Gac1]

Yep I believe the proffesorship has to do with healing work,

Here's some info about him personally on the sight and some about the school history.

http://www.shaolin.co.za/Sigung.htm

http://www.shaolin.co.za/smachistory.html

[Maxui]

The four pillars of Hung Gar are not taught at this school.

So as far as I am concerned what they teach is not Hung Gar

<i>1st tiger form

This is a attacking system it has no fear in its advancement of attacking, the tiger or hung-gar is a system which trains the bones to resist heavy shock. Low stances and an all round agility is the most important factor in the 1st hung-gar form teaching the student to use ground and grabbing applications.</i>


This sounds nothing like Gong Zhe Fu Hu Chuan to me.

This is the form I have learned as Gong Zhe Fu Hu Chuan (mandarin for taming the tiget in the I shape) ->

YouTube - Taiwanese Hung Kyun - school of James Yeh

I know it differs from Lam Sai Wing's which looks a little like this I think ->
YouTube - Hung Gar Gung Gee Fook Fu Kuen

Does the one your school teach resemble that?

[It is Fake]

If it is wushu based it doesn't matter. There is a ton on that site that is very McDojoish.

I only found two claiming fighting experience but, mainly they talk about contemporary/modern Wushu.

So, not teaching the four pillars has nothing to do with Contemporary Wushu. A majority of their wins are in performance/forms based competitions. Very few wushu only schools teach the history behind the forms they do.

Also, I'd argue they are claiming that is where their forms come from not, that they are teaching the Art/Style of Hung Gar.

The main problems:
1) They are trying to imply they fight while, all of their wins are in Modern Wushu.
2) They are trying to gain outside legitimacy by joining with already established school.
3) No verifiable lineage or teachers.
4) No clear cut separation of Wushu vs. Fighting.


The good:
1) They admit there are a ton of Modern Wushu Wins.
2) They show the affiliations (not their lineage).
3) If you dig, you can find they compete mainly in Wushu tournaments.


I'll dig later. There is much more that bothers me. There is a large grab for legitimacy, without lineage, which is a huge Red flag for myself.

[shmuel]

I had another look at the website, and their lineage and history sounds very vague. Who taught this Leo Sebregts guy the traditional stuff.

I'm not asking about the modern wushu. I want to know where he learned this Lin Wan Kuen and Wing Chun and Hung Gar. Who was his teacher and why has no-one heard of Lin Wan Kuen as a style?

Also, why are people punching a bucket full of rocks?

[It is Fake]

I had another look at the website, and their lineage and history sounds very vague. Who taught this Leo Sebregts guy the traditional stuff.

Yeah, that is what I said.

No verifiable lineage or teachers.

I'm not asking about the modern wushu. I want to know where he learned this Lin Wan Kuen and Wing Chun and Hung Gar. Who was his teacher and why has no-one heard of Lin Wan Kuen as a style?

I was addressing Mauxi the thread starter. So, the Contemporary Wushu is relevant to his questions.

Email the guy or one of his schools and see if they give you names.