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  1. scorchedearth is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/16/2007 2:08pm


     Style: muaythai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Humility can be taught by getting your ass kicked in the gym.
  2. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/16/2007 2:20pm


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwak
    While I do agree that discipline is beneficial in training for war that doesn't mean it is included in Martial arts. martial arts are the arts of Mars not the arts of war, and yes there is a difference. Mars was not the only god of war, well he was but not the only diety presiding over war, the brutality, bloodlust, individual prowess, and ability in combat were the domain of Mars. the strategy, tactics, discipline, teamwork, etc. were the domain of Minerva, and to my knowledge, though I may be wrong, were not what was meant by martial art when the term was first used, military arts, I believe, is different.
    That said I do believe that respect and discipline are usually side effects of that type of training and provided they don't get in the way of learning to fight the isn't any reason why they can't be included, as long as they aren't the ridiculus version of respect and discipline I frequently see coming out of many 'martial artists'.
    Where do you get your definition of Martial Arts? I'm not saying I necessarily agree but I find your premise interesting.

    I agree with the other things you have to say.
  3. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/16/2007 9:19pm

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwak
    While I do agree that discipline is beneficial in training for war that doesn't mean it is included in Martial arts. martial arts are the arts of Mars not the arts of war, and yes there is a difference. Mars was not the only god of war, well he was but not the only diety presiding over war, the brutality, bloodlust, individual prowess, and ability in combat were the domain of Mars. the strategy, tactics, discipline, teamwork, etc. were the domain of Minerva, and to my knowledge, though I may be wrong, were not what was meant by martial art when the term was first used, military arts, I believe, is different.
    That said I do believe that respect and discipline are usually side effects of that type of training and provided they don't get in the way of learning to fight the isn't any reason why they can't be included, as long as they aren't the ridiculus version of respect and discipline I frequently see coming out of many 'martial artists'.
    Interesting post, discipline is needed to train effectively, but it doesn't have to carry over into humility. The assets of fighting aren't those of diplomacy, cartography, geology finance etc. and to fight well, someone needs control only in certain ways, over their body, mind, and the focus and willpower to use their tools to inflict immense pain...not a humble attitude.

    I think the critics of mma resent that the fighters can act hard legitimately. Training in the most well rounded, realistic, and pressure tested skillset in modern times for unarmed combat, will instill a righteous feeling in someone...wannabees might hate on that.
    **** em, what are they gonna do? fight every mma guy? cry online? act hard to their friends and secretly wish they had the bollocks???

    Just ask Bullet tooth Tony, "there are two types of balls, great big balls, and little mincy fagg*t ones..."
    The critics of mma can't deal with the dissolving of their delusional attitudes toward fighting, and what it really looks like. My fighting looks like a stick insect, breakdancing in a cup.:ninja7:
  4. seriousmantid is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/17/2007 12:34pm

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     Style: 8 step preying mantis

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This thread was supposed tyo be about arrogance in the MMA. I have made the point that arrogance and aggression usually are not far appart. Saying that , Mixed Martial Arts is the most aggressive thing being taught today so it is only natural to find more arrogance in those settings. Now just because their is arrogance does not mean it is wrong just that it is the most popular thing going like modern day gladiators so there should be more arrogance. Not a bad thing just a fact, back in the 70's kung fu was the thing and created alot of arrogant people and still does. I think that people who truly believe in their art and its affectiveness will come off as arrogant to those they try to discuss it with.
  5. bushi_no_ki is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/17/2007 1:30pm


     Style: TMA, MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    seriousmantid, I do think it really is the ones who practice mma styles, but don't really compete that are the source of the problem for MMA. Whereas in TMA, it's the opposite. The high ranking Hanshi/Shihan/Shidoshi who got his rank from a mcdojo association is the problem, and the students are typically pretty humble. The hardcore group from both sides tends to be a little more humble, because they actually had to work for their accomplishments.
  6. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/17/2007 1:51pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As it is now, this thread is a fucking abortion.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  7. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/17/2007 2:35pm


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

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    Quote Originally Posted by seriousmantid
    This thread was supposed tyo be about arrogance in the MMA. I have made the point that arrogance and aggression usually are not far appart. Saying that , Mixed Martial Arts is the most aggressive thing being taught today so it is only natural to find more arrogance in those settings. Now just because their is arrogance does not mean it is wrong just that it is the most popular thing going like modern day gladiators so there should be more arrogance. Not a bad thing just a fact, back in the 70's kung fu was the thing and created alot of arrogant people and still does. I think that people who truly believe in their art and its affectiveness will come off as arrogant to those they try to discuss it with.
    Aggressiveness is just fine. After all, if you're training to fight, defend yourself, whatever, why wouldn't you want to develop aggressiveness? Where I see the problem is with peoples inability to turn it off when it's not needed. That takes self discipline. Doesn't matter the art, or the sport, or the business, whatever. If aggressiveness is a positive trait, there will always be those that take it to the level of arrogance, especially if that trait was already part of their personality.
  8. zathurious is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/17/2007 4:01pm

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     Style: Tae Kwon Do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I guess everyone's different. However, with my personal experience, I've found that most MMA guys are actually alot nicer than many of the more traditional dudes. I remember cross training in MMA for a few months, and all the instructors and students were as down to earth as it got.

    I can see how alot of Karate/ Kungfu guys can get upset. I think alot of it's insecurity, most of the time.
    Here you have a martial artist that trains every day in full-contact fighting while your Karate sensei won't even let you throw (or recieve) a real punch. I can see how the Karate guys would get insecure and start finding whatever flaw they could against MMA fighters, just to make themselves feel a little better.
    I think it all has to do with business. It seems that most Karate schools are geared towards 10 year olds and such. I'm sure your run of the mill soccer mom wouldn't be happy if her 10 year old came home one day with a bruised rib or black eye. Personally, I don't have anything against kids having fun in Karate, I just feel that those schools are what give alot of TKD/ Karate/ Kungfu etc. schools a bad reputation these days.
    I wish more martial arts schools would allow full contact fighting with their styles. I'm sure people would find that alot of older techniques really WERE effective, and hopefully modify the ones that didn't work so well.
    A great example of this is Sanshou. Basically all of the useful stuff in kung fu that you could actually practice and perfect against another fighter without killing them with some magical death touch.

    In the end, I think most negative MMA comments come from insecure haters.
  9. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/17/2007 11:09pm

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     Style: MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by seriousmantid
    This thread was supposed tyo be about arrogance in the MMA. I have made the point that arrogance and aggression usually are not far appart. Saying that , Mixed Martial Arts is the most aggressive thing being taught today so it is only natural to find more arrogance in those settings. Now just because their is arrogance does not mean it is wrong just that it is the most popular thing going like modern day gladiators so there should be more arrogance. Not a bad thing just a fact, back in the 70's kung fu was the thing and created alot of arrogant people and still does. I think that people who truly believe in their art and its affectiveness will come off as arrogant to those they try to discuss it with.
    So your point is based on a point you "made" (by stating it w/o proving it) linking aggression and arrogance, then a point you "made" about MMA being "the most aggressive" and therefor more arrogant.

    So your answer to the OP is a carefully considered, "yes, because I said so"

    IRT the poster above: I sort of agree. I was just posting on another board about how MMA is a rules-set and an intensity level, not a martial art, and about how an open laboratory to explore fighting should excite, not threaten, a martial artist...
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  10. seriousmantid is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2007 12:08pm

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     Style: 8 step preying mantis

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    So your point is based on a point you "made" (by stating it w/o proving it) linking aggression and arrogance, then a point you "made" about MMA being "the most aggressive" and therefor more arrogant.

    So your answer to the OP is a carefully considered, "yes, because I said so"

    IRT the poster above: I sort of agree. I was just posting on another board about how MMA is a rules-set and an intensity level, not a martial art, and about how an open laboratory to explore fighting should excite, not threaten, a martial artist...

    I have yet to find an arrogant fighter that isn't aggressive. Although there are those aggressive fighters that aren't arrogant. That is the point I was getting at but if you have proof to show me other wise I would gladly listen.

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