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  1. Ke?poFist is offline
    Ke?poFist's Avatar

    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 9:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Being muscular makes you gas?

    Is it true that the larger you build yourself up, the more oxygen is required to fuel your body, thus causing you to gas earlier?
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  2. SuperGuido is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 10:13pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I call bullshit.

    If anything, new grapplers who rely on strength and mass over technique WILL gas before a smaller, more technical grappler.

    A seasoned grappler who also weight trains should not gas by virtue of their muscle size. While it's true that it takes more fuel to move a bigger machine...a bigger machine will coast at greater speed than a smaller machine at full speed.

    My metaphors suck.
  3. Deadmeat is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 10:15pm


     Style: Mixed Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was speaking with someone about this recently, and I think that it's more a case of your body adapting to the type of exercise that you do. A physical activity regime aimed at increasing muscle mass does not guarantee improved cardiovascular, and a routine high in cardiovascular exercise isn't conducive to developing new muscle mass.

    So it may be one of those things where the big muscular guys gas quickly because their training doesn't focus on the development of cardio.
  4. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 10:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think you meant "gassy". The protein supplements tend to wreck havock on the colon.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  5. HANKtheTANK is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 10:33pm


     Style: Systema & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm no expert but IMO if ur musculature is built naturally thru time, i don't think u should gas.
    i have no issues of gassing, and i hold a fair amount of muscle

    i think what ppl are used to seeing is the hugely jacked up ppl who are on the sauce that gas easily, cuz they're not accustomed to their rapid weight increase

    if u've built it naturally, it should be a slow gain, and ur body can likely adapt to the changes without losing much in the gas dept

    actually, come to think of it, i know a friend and old training partner who is currently on a cycle, and tells me he can't last half as long in his muay thai class currently, cuz he's just gained 15 lbs in a matter of 2 weeks, its making him sluggish and slow, and tired a lot earlier than expected. Couple that with the instantaneous "pump" ur muscles get from exertion, and the muscles will burn out in no time
  6. SFGOON is offline
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    and humble, too!

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 10:40pm


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Muscle consumes energy quickly, and yes, you'll gas quickly if your blood sugar is too low.
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 10:41pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    Is it true that the larger you build yourself up, the more oxygen is required to fuel your body, thus causing you to gas earlier?
    A person doesn't gas (specially in an anaerobic activity such as fighting) for lack of "oxygen". A person gasses out because he has poor anaerobic capacity, which is independent of one's muscularity or lack of it. More specifically, it has to do with SAIDs (specific adaptations to imposed demands.)

    If an athlete doesn't train for a specific activity (grappling, sprinting, etc.), that person will not perform well (he'll gas out.) His body is not adapted to the imposed demands of the activity in question. This has nothing to do with how muscular or skinny that person is.


    Any person may want to ask that muscle cardio machine known as Rhadi Ferguson what he thinks about muscle == gassing out ;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM-HkxsLRqw


    http://www.grapplearts.com/Rhadi-Ferguson.html

    Interviewer: From your body's physique it is obvious that you have spent time under heavy iron as well. How do you organize your workouts?

    Rhadi: Ahhhhh, the secrets of training - Periodization. I do a little of this and a little of that. I do go through all of the cycles of anatomical adaptation, strength, power, power endurance and metabolic conditioning, but the organization of my workouts really depend on what I'm doing and what I'm preparing for. For the Olympic Games I was working out 2 times a day and cycling the workouts between hard days and easy days.

    In terms of my training I would begin with Hypertrophy and then go to Power and then into Power Metabolic or what some people call Power Endurance. Usually JC and I would skip the Strength portion of the cycle or just do a hybrid of strength and power. The reason, I was strong enough and when you have a period of time when you are training for an event you don't train what you have, you train what you need. My biggest issue that I was able to eliminate (well almost) was my inability to maintain a high level of explosive power over the whole time period. I was very pleased when I reached the Olympic Games in my second match against the Silver Medalist when I was able to explode and go all out for the whole five minutes. At then end of the match I was exhausted, but the training paid off.

    It is impossible for me to go into all of our training systems or my whole training macrocycle in one question, but I will tell you this. The "money" cycle, the training cycle - in my opinion which is the most important - is the Power Metabolic Cycle. You can take the same workout in the Power Metabolic Cycle and tweak it for strength, for power, and/or for Power Endurance. A great example of our Power Endurance circuits are in our S.A.I.D. DVD series. Now the way you can tweak these workout for the cycles that I mentioned is this. You can take each exercise which is in the circuit and do it in what we call a "Component Style". Meaning you take each exercise and add some external resistance to it. An easy fix is a weight vest, a medicine ball or in some cases some dumbbells are barbells. And you just perform the reps and rest and then move to the next exercise.

    Once you've done that for about 2 weeks, you can begin to reduce the rest time between each exercise and then you can do that for two weeks. After that you can remove the vest and eliminate the rest between the exercises and perform the circuits as fast as possible. We call that "training under the hood". Because in order to do circuits faster, you can't do more circuits. You have to add more power to the output of the exercises. And to make a car go faster you can't drive it faster, you have to open up the hood and replace the engine. This is the same for marathon runners. They don't get faster by running longer. They get faster by doing intervals and sprints and then their marathon time decreases.

    So if you are practice, the key is not to roll for 2 hours. The key is to roll hard for 5-7 minutes and then take a break and roll hard for another 5-7 minutes. Press the pace and move. Sacrifice good position to try something and keep moving. There is a time to do this of course, but this is the philosophical premise. When you are in a live match you will not sacrifice good position, but the constant moving from training in practice will allow you to develop the sports specific conditioning that you will need in live situations. Thus, SPECIFIC ADAPTATIONS TO IMPOSED DEMANDS! You will be able to adapt according to the demands placed on the body.

    If you would like to know and get the system that we used to train our fighters then I would recommend the Program Design Book from our website. I would also highly recommend the Specific Adaptations to Imposed Demands (S.A.I.D.) DVDs as well. We understand that a lot of fighters have these questions so we have constructed an ebook how to "Avoid the Five Biggest Mistakes that Coaches Make with Combat Athletes" and that is available by sending an email to intocombat@aweber.com The free ebook comes immediately after signing up for our newsletter.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 10:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Additionally, a bit off the tangent, but not much, please read the following article and make sure you understand the difference cycles of training. In particular pay attention to the strenght/power endurance cycle:

    http://www.judoinfo.com/strength.htm

    The interesting thing about this article, and which makes it relevant to the original question is that:

    1- this is for grapplers, and
    2- it builds a case of building muscle size and/or strenght to increase the strenght of one's ligaments, which is key to develop power and power-endurance (the ability to go balls out as strongly as possible for as long as possible.)

    Muscle doesn't make you gas. It's your training or lack thereof that makes you gas.

    -- EDIT --

    Plus some more good **** that can help pple answer these questions:

    http://www.veloforce.net/Sportspec.html

    http://www.veloforce.net/periodization.html

    -- EDIT --

    What's the name of the TUF participant who uttered those retarded words, that being muscular would make his opponent to gas out faster? Man, that was some retarded ****.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 10/03/2007 10:59pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  9. NoMan is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2007 11:40pm


     Style: Boxing, Judo, BJJ, M.T.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm going with El Macho here, with a minor caveat. If you weigh 185 and another person weighs in at 175, and everything else is the same, (heart rate, lactate threshold, pain tolerance, red vs. white fiber composition, VO2 max, etc.), the 185'er would gas first. Simply put, moving ten extra pounds causes more oxygen to get burned, and the blood has to pump through more tissue. In aerobics, this effect is more obvious, since runners with an extra one hundred pounds on them going for long distances would give a huge disadvantage.

    In MMA, the type of endurance is a combination of anaerobic endurance used in scrambling, reversals, takedowns, and quick one hit moves, and glycolytic endurance. The initial movement causes anaerobic waste, which the body must quickly get rid of, and it uses oxygen in this role. (Which is why many people confuse anaerobic and aerobic endurance because both make you breathe heavy. Do a set of heavy squats and see how hard you breathe). The rate at which you recover will be much better for a weight lifter, who will generally be more muscular.

    The second type of endurance used is glycolytic endurance. This type of endurance is used in striking and wrestling quite a bit. It's not a series of submaximal movements over a sustained distance like jogging or cycling, but a series of movements ranging in intensity but for short durations. A lot of SAID people debate the usefulness of slow jogging for fighters, and instead recommend Fartlek cycle training.

    Stronger guys will have a definite advantage in the same weight class. A weaker guy will have to use closer to his maximum strength to control the stronger guy, (assuming equal skill), burning up more of his oxygen.

    The problem is that many strong guy overrely upon strength, making them inefficient in the ring. Another is too many focus on only one aspect, (pure strength), versus glycolytic endurance and anaerobic endurance. And finally, most big guys tend to be generic endomorphic guys.. It should be obvious, but a big guy is usually designed to be a strength freak, and has a low concentration of low level of aerobic enzymes, concentration of red fibers, VO2 max, etc. To summarize in one sentence, genetics and your training routine matter more for how quick you're going to gas in the ring than your muscle mass.
  10. wado kai karate is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2007 11:45pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: wado kai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    its true the bigger you are the faster you will gas....so thats why those short martial artests are so damn fast, they dont have to worry as much ... if at all about gassing out.
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