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  1. Bolverk is offline

    Ex-ATA and Proud of it.

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2007 12:57pm


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank you for the history lesson, I appreciate a good read. However, none of what you have entered changes the impact of Slomanski's accomplishments. And, by the way, Slomanski was trained in Judo as well, beginning his training in 1946.

    As far as the reasons for Kano creating Judo, there are actually several articles that were well researched and all sources documented. I have read them, and I agree that Kano had a significant impact on martial arts, but not so much in the way people trained, but more in the fact that he was the first person to use belts to help students maintain their interest in learning.

    I also agree that the Gracies, less Helio and more his sons, had a tremendous impact on ground fighting. Helio was the first to experiment with a greater range of locks and submission moves then the standard moves. In other words, he went outside of established patterns to find his own truth. The results speak for themselves, and I would never deny the impact they had on the sport. They were not pioneers, but they certainly were innovators.

    The impact that Slomanski had on Japanese Karate was for the creators of the styles to realize that techniques and training needed to change. Size was an issue, regardless of what they thought. Slomanski destroyed an entire belief system in two days. If you fail to see the impact that had on martial arts, then it is your loss. However, I for one feel that Hank Slomanski deserves recognition for what he did, and is indeed in a class with Helio Gracie, though perhaps not with Kano. But, that was never my point. My point is, he changed an entire systems belief in what worked. How many people can ever say that? Very few.
    Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
    Willing is not enough, we must do.

    Never approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the rear, or a Fool from any direction!

    He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Payne
  2. Bolverk is offline

    Ex-ATA and Proud of it.

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2007 12:58pm


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophist
    No. While he had intentions of making his new art a manifestation of physical culture similar to the English view of boxing, he created it as a fighting art first and foremost, and proved its value by beating the **** out of the koryu jujitsu schools.

    Please inform yourself on this topic before posting further.
    Belt Colors and Ranking Tradition Read this, it is well documented. It also breaks things down far better then you did.
    Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
    Willing is not enough, we must do.

    Never approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the rear, or a Fool from any direction!

    He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Payne
  3. Bolverk is offline

    Ex-ATA and Proud of it.

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2007 1:11pm


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As far as why he created Judo, I have seen three of four different reasons, but none put forth by Kano himself. One, to combine the best techniques from different schools and removing deadly techniques to form a sport. Two, because he was picked on when he was a young kid by fellow students. Three, because JuJitsu thugs would use techniques to intimidate people and this angered him.

    It is very likely that there were several reasons he created sport Judo, which by the way was named Kodokan Judo and never known as a form of JuJitsu according to Kano's own descriptions. He was after all an academic in the strictest sense of the word.
    Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
    Willing is not enough, we must do.

    Never approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the rear, or a Fool from any direction!

    He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Payne
  4. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2007 1:16pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolverk
    As far as the reasons for Kano creating Judo, there are actually several articles that were well researched and all sources documented. I have read them, and I agree that Kano had a significant impact on martial arts, but not so much in the way people trained,
    Instead of reading these well 'researched articles' you could just buy Kodokan Judo by Jigoro Kano and read what the guy had to say about it himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolverk
    but more in the fact that he was the first person to use belts to help students maintain their interest in learning.
    That arse is talking again. Kano didn't introduce belts to help students maintain interest, as all kyu grades wore white (try reading the article you posted).
  5. Bolverk is offline

    Ex-ATA and Proud of it.

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2007 1:19pm


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let's read why Kano created Judo, and never called it JuJitsu first.

    Again, in Kano's words:" "There are two reasons why I avoided the term 'jujitsu'. One is that there were jujitsu schools which often indulged in violent and dangerous techniques in throwing or twisting arms and legs. Seeing these things, many people came to believe jujitsu was harmful. Again, in an exercise hall where supervision was inadequate, the senior pupils would wantonly throw down juniors or pick quarrels, so that jujitsu was despised as something that made rowdies of young men. I wished to show that what I taught was not a dangerous thing, and would not needlessly injure any person, that it was not the jujitsu as it was taught by some people , and that it was "judo", an entirely different thing.

    "The second reason was that when I began to teach jujitsu had fallen into disrepute. Some jujitsu masters made their living by organizing groups composed of their followers, and putting on exhibition matches to which admission fees were charged. Some went so far to stage bouts between professional sumo wrestlers and jujitsu men. Such degrading practices of prostitution of martial arts were repugnant to me, so I avoided the term jujitsu and adopted judo in its stead."
    Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
    Willing is not enough, we must do.

    Never approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the rear, or a Fool from any direction!

    He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Payne
  6. Bolverk is offline

    Ex-ATA and Proud of it.

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2007 1:32pm


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze
    Instead of reading these well 'researched articles' you could just buy Kodokan Judo by Jigoro Kano and read what the guy had to say about it himself.That arse is talking again. Kano didn't introduce belts to help students maintain interest, as all kyu grades wore white (try reading the article you posted).
    I am not interested in reading more books. I have several I am reading right now about philosophy, training, computers, programming and a few other subjects. I found most of my information about Kano when I was looking for information on the history of the coveted and mystical Black Belt.

    And you seemed to have missed this part of the article:

    "Dr. Kano also revised the rainking system, creating ten steps with relatively short intervals to keep judo students interested in progressing through the various technical levels."
    Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
    Willing is not enough, we must do.

    Never approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the rear, or a Fool from any direction!

    He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Payne
  7. Bolverk is offline

    Ex-ATA and Proud of it.

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2007 1:33pm


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anyway, this thread is not about Jigoro Kano and the accomplishments he brought to martial arts. It is about giving recognition to a forgotten Amercian Karate stylist who changed the way an entire country viewed their Karate.
    Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
    Willing is not enough, we must do.

    Never approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the rear, or a Fool from any direction!

    He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Payne
  8. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2007 1:36pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Or there are translated articles by Kano and people who knew him over at judoinfo.

    http://www.judoinfo.com/kano.htm

    Kano was first concerned with creating a better fighting method. He spoke out later in life against judo being made purely into a sport.
    From the article I just posted:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jigoro Kano
    The object of a systematic physical training in Judo is not only to develop the body but to enable a man or a woman to have a perfect control over mind and body and make him or her ready to meet any emergency whether that be a pure accident or an attack by others.
    As judo's popularity snowballed, he turned the philosophy of efficiency that he had found so fruitful in developing his art into a more widespread philosophy which was really a kind of Utilitarianism. This led to him being very careful to present judo as a wholesome activity that produced upstanding and self-disciplined citizens. However, you have to consider that he was also very keen to demonstrate the superiority of his new approach (particularly "kuzushi", which he introduced into jujitsu) and hence his students fought in a great many challenge matches.

    http://www.judoinfo.com/jhist5.htm
  9. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2007 1:38pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolverk
    Anyway, this thread is not about Jigoro Kano and the accomplishments he brought to martial arts. It is about giving recognition to a forgotten Amercian Karate stylist who changed the way an entire country viewed their Karate.
    See, this is something that none of us really had a problem with. It was the attempt to make a revolution in karate in the pre-Oyama days take on some more global significance that annoyed everyone so.
  10. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2007 1:44pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolverk
    Belt Colors and Ranking Tradition Read this, it is well documented. It also breaks things down far better then you did.
    Also, this is a good and interesting article.
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