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  1. ronh is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 11:55am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kung-Fu, Arnis, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Carlisle Kung-Fu Center

    Iím relatively new to martial arts but consider my self sensible when it comes to what Iím involved with, in that vein I also consider myself pragmatic and not interested in traditional CMA topics like internal energy or style lineage or forms for the sake of forms without knowledge of practical application and Iím happy to say none of these have really been an issue with my studies in the school.

    Iíve now been attending the school for a little over a year and itís been a giant learning experience. Foundations such as balance, movement, physical conditioning, and mental preparedness have all been in my studies and itís been a noticeable change on my part adapting all these things into my striking, cardio, and overall physical health.

    The first month or two was dedicated to basics striking skills, kicks, breathing, blocks, and strength workouts. Upon moving up, emphasis was given on movement, leg work, hip work with strikes and kicks, with heavy emphasis on bag work. These were applied then in sparring with three step movement and free style sparring. Itís defiantly a different experience to practice into a bag or air then to apply while moving blocking and countering and the only way to get that is with real hands on sparring. You learn a whole lot real quick when you keep getting your ass whipped by higher levels. But the general mood of everyone in the school is we are there to help each other. So itís always appreciated when someone can show you a weakness in your guard or a in a strike by either punching you through it or laughing maniacally as they block your strike and deliver there own.

    Formality in the school is somewhat existent but itís pretty laid back there is the cupped fist bow when entering the floor and a ceremonial bow before and after class. Uniform consist of standard black button top kung-fu uniform and pants, they can be purchased in or outside of the school and are inexpensive.

    From the CMA perspective the style taught is Pai Lum, supposedly a mixture of northern and southern styles of Kung-fu more similarities with Hung-gar exist then anything else. Although after talking to other class mates and the instructor there are other martial styles implemented due to cross training in the past and other instructors bringing information into the system, this includes elements of Goju Ryu, Kenpo, and Judo.

    Sparring consist of a probably strikes 60-70% effort (depends on who you spar with and how far they take it with you, itís a joint effort) with full strength in blocks but pulling the strikes to the head or private regions. There is no sparring gear so thatís about as far as itís taken. We do use pads for full out practice with striking partnering up we do circle walking and depending on the curriculum of the day either kicking or striking or mixing it up.

    Free style sparring can involve take downs, throws, etc. Although the style is stand-up there are elements of single and double leg takedowns, sprawling, and chin-na for grappling. But the general mood is ďif you go down hereís how to get bring the fight back-up.Ē

    Training in forms consist of what youíd think punching in the air, but on the good end there is always a practical application where the form is practiced with a partner to actually practice the various strikes, blocks, and movements.

    Equipment available for training are your typical heavy bags, a two BOB dummies to practice specific body strikes, weight bench and sets, stretch machines, medicine balls, etc.

    Between the day class (12 Ė 1pm) and evening classes (6-8:30) there is open floor time where the instructor and equipment / floor space is available for practice. I have come in a few times during open floor time and either the instructor or senior students have always made them selves available for sparring, specific instruction, or just to leave me alone to get bag work, etc.

    There are weapons used in the school the traditional CMA weapons taught include staff, broad sword, nun chucks, and three sectional staff. Also there is an Modern Arnis class taught by the instructor once a month on Saturdays with intermediate classís throughout the month which includes standard Philippines rattan sticks and short knives (in class we train with wood knives) itís very interesting but also can be frustrating as knife fighting is very quick and needs full commitment and precision. Something I just donít have right now. Maybe after I get stabbed a few more hundred times I may be enlightened, but the grace of the senior students still eludes me.

    On the Modern Arnis the class also deals with open hand knife disarms and joint locks or small joint submissions/manipulations otherwise known as ďoh god what have you done to my fingers.Ē

    There is also a Tai Chi class once a week but I currently do not attend, from what I have seen of the students that do study Tai Chi it has a lot of interesting applications in passive fighting with pulling or diverting strikes and then coming back in with that force for your own. So if one is so inclined to study the internal side of it this class is your option.

    Iím not sure what else I can say other then if you want a nice some what traditional CMA school but open to cross training come and check it out. The students are all helpful and the ability to train in other arts like Modern Arnis or Tai Chi is like icing on the cake.
    Last edited by ronh; 10/03/2007 12:19pm at .
  2. pancakeMan is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/16/2008 8:30am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Pai Lum Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I attend the Harrisburg Kung Fu center. I just started a few weeks ago. Glad to hear positive things about the carlisle one.
  3. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    5/16/2008 8:57am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    not trying to bash your review but you seem to have misunderstood the ratings system. please read the following thread and adjust your ratings accordingly...

    Ratings and You - Read This Before Posting Your Review - No BS Martial Arts

    most troubling are your scores for aliveness (this may not mean what you think it does) striking instruction (a 9 here indicates that you produce strikers who compete and win at the national level in full contact competition, i.e. sanda or lei tai) and the weapons training (again a 9 would indicate a level of proficiency that few outside the filipino martial arts world possess.)
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  4. pancakeMan is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/16/2008 9:15am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Pai Lum Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sifu at the Harrisburg Kung Fu center has us practice full contact drills with each other without pads. If we are aiming for the face we are instructed to aim for the forehead incase. I have been hit in the face a couple times. We also practice kicking/punching drills into the legs and stomach.

    I imagine it is similar to the carlisle kung fu center because the sifu at carlise is the student of my sifu.

    Maybe I am misunderstanding the rating system but the aliveness is accurate according to the article you submitted. The only difference is that we don't use padding.

    I can't say about the striking however, as I am only a beginner.
  5. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    5/16/2008 9:41am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pancakeMan
    Sifu at the Harrisburg Kung Fu center has us practice full contact drills with each other without pads.
    you don't know what full contact is. i'm being 100% serious.

    full contact does not happen anywhere outside of the ring/cage or a street fight. people that train together do NOT hit each other full contact. they may spar HARD contact, but without gear that isn't going to happen either.

    until you put on the gear, and spar hard, it can be hard to understand the difference, and until you step into the ring and fight with someone who isn't your friend, it's almost impossible to know the difference between hard sparring in the club and full contact fighting in the ring.

    again, not trying to dump on your schools, they sound like decent places to train, but we have to be very clear with the terminology we use around here to avoid confusion.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  6. pancakeMan is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/16/2008 10:01am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Pai Lum Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok, well I stand corrected. However, my point was that you were questioning the "aliveness" rating of the school. From what we have done so far and what the rating says, he is pretty accurate in giving it a 7. It is medium contact minus the pads.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/16/2008 10:07am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pancakeMan
    It is medium contact minus the pads.

    Medium contact with excessive safety gear.
    It seems nitpicky but after doing both, what you think is medium is not a six or seven.

    Yes, I did what I'd consider medium to hard contact no gear sparring. Then we put the gloves on when you got to Black Belt.

    No matter what you think it is not the same. I can tell you the obvious differences if you need it.
  8. pancakeMan is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/16/2008 10:11am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Pai Lum Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes please tell me the obvious differences. I guess I don't understand what medium contact is.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/16/2008 10:26am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    With no gear probably medium contact to the body light to zero contact to the head medium light contact or no leg kicks.


    When you put gear on there is more pressure applied to punches and kicks. That light contact changes when the pressure is applied. Punches you think you can absorb may actually push you back. A nice pop to the face will change the trajectory of your punches when, you have a fist in your face making contact.

    A couple of vids:
    Gear on:
    YouTube - Full Contact Sparring (American Kickboxing) 2 R2
    Notice the all the pads? Decent contact and pressure excessive gear. This would be closer to a 6 or 7.

    I'd have to see more because the intensity seems a little light.


    Gear off:
    YouTube - karate sparing

    4-5: Light contact continuous sparring (negligible pain/risk).
    I'd say this is decent for gloves only. Thing is as you watch you see things that aren't respected. Not saying anything bad about the guys but, it can develop bad habits.

    I know from experience. I did both videos.
  10. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/16/2008 1:43pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree IIF.

    Vid 1 = 6-7
    Vid 2 = 4-5

    You know, that is a good Idea for the aliveness aspect of the rating system. I'll see if I can find vids for each and put up a sticky.

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