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  1. pnwnorseman is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2007 6:03pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Could grappling go the way of karate?

    It seems that the kung fu/kung fu movie craze of the late 60s/early 70s was a big contributor to the watering down of TMA in american. Too many students, Not enough real masters and schools, And more than likely an overabundance of dickheads wanting to make a buck by swindling the unsuspecting masses. So as UFC and other full contact fighting sports come into prominance on american TV does anyone fear that grappling styles especially BJJ could suffer from the same fate as karate/kung fu? It seems both likely and unlikely since the training includes hard sparring and aliveness that this would hapen, but at one point kung fu and karate included training like this too even Aikido!!!. I was just curious about this since I was watching a comedian and one of his bits was about UFC and how other ring sports like boxing and wrestling are just unwatchable now because UFC type fights just offer the crowd more of what they want. Seems to make sense from a base line logical standpoint. Also I only bring up BJJ as an example because it is probably the most widely popularized grappling stlye in the USA...Thanks Gracies. Also any assertions of cause/effect between the kung fu movies and "downfall" of TMA is purely speculation. Its just what I have observed.
  2. M1K3 is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2007 6:15pm


     Style: submission grappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, because one type of grappling is folkstyle wrestling which is practiced in beau coup high schools and colleges in the US and Canada. Way more wrestlers than bjj players at this point in time.
  3. HappyOldGuy is offline
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    Slipping coal into stockings with a little sumptin for mom.

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2007 6:22pm


     Style: Rehab Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If it hasn't already, it will. People will want to train "BJJ" for practical self defense or fitness maybe without the full commitment/risk of injuriries that you get in true resistant training. And as long as you have people who want different things out of training, and will pay for those things, you will have people who will service that need.

    But the key bit is that as long as you have open competition with an emphasis on semi realistic rules, you will always have a way to seperate the wheat from the chaff.
  4. twKoxinga is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2007 9:18pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Judo was pretty popular in Japan for a LONNNG time, and it was pretty popular at one point in the US and it still didn't turn into bullshido

    why? Hard sparring and handing out of rank for applicable skill against resisting opponents.
  5. FUNKtastic is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2007 9:49pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ditto on the Judo example although some schools have shifted to exclusively teaching throws and no ne waza whatsoever which is, in my opinion, pathetic.

    I think its possible, like making most of practice into technical training instead of kata and showing riduculously complicated moves which wouldn't pan out on any level of sparring like what I have seen from Hapkido.

    Then again though its possible, I think it is far from probable; the sport doesn't seem plausible without a constant level of sparring, nor does it seem suseptable to the claims that doing X is too dangerous because of the ability to tap out i.e: punch to face in karate can break your nose and it is an instantaneous break if the person gets the right hit, as opposed to saw an arm bar being applied graduallly instead of in a snap motion so you have a chance to guage the pain and tap. Also I think the larger recognized tournaments; NAGA, GRAPPLERS QUEST, etc. serve a key function in that they are establshed and if you want to perform well there, you have to roll constantly.

    But then, the world is not a logical place...
  6. Sevengraff is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2007 10:00pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Boxing is another example. It's been around forever and got plenty of media attention, from pro fights on PPV to the Rocky movies, and it still produces a high ratio of good quality fighters. Like FUNKtastic said, as long as there is an emphasis on realistic competition then the is little to worry about.
  7. EternalRage is offline
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    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2007 10:05pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm more worried it will turn into WWE or something. There's alot of marketing and hype involved in MMA, just hope it doesn't turn into a fucking circus, because from the looks of the crowd MMA is attracting, things look a little bleak.

    As far as grappling by itself, as long as the emphasis is on performance and not memorizing dead patterns/drills or the philosophical rantings of long dead flower boys, I think it should be just fine.
  8. Uri Shatil is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2007 10:05pm


     Style: Wrestling, BJJ n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pnwnorseman
    original post
    Not really.

    See, for some reason, people today have this idea that history is an endless cycle. It is not. There are certain motifs that are obvious, but some things are actually different, and will not fit in to the cycle. There are some things that make the UFC inheriently different from the Kung Fu craze.

    The media outlet starting the Kung Fu craze came from movies, which are scripted, as where MMA is actual competition, and people in the ring don't try to specialize in one system but instead try to find the best combination of systems. Grappling, especially Judo and Wrestling, is internationally practiced, so if one system becomes watered down, another will step up and take its place. They won't become watered down, because if anyone does do watered down grappling will fail in competition against people who don't do watered down grappling. If, hypothetically, everyone waters down their grappling, then maybe the entire sport could go down the shitter temporarily.

    But no, it probably won't happen because of differences inherent in between a static system and a competition-based system. I give this thread a 3/5 and a picture of a monkey.

  9. Axelton is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2007 10:53pm


     Style: Wing Chun, Hung Gar

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Of course it will. What a stupid question.
  10. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2007 10:55pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If by "grappling" you mean BJJ, judo and wrestling then no. They are all legitimate sports and therefore adhere to training methods that are specific to the activity itself. BJJ and judo have established systems of ranking based on performance.

    Furthermore I think karate and kung-fu were a wreck long before the movie industry got to them.
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