Wing Chun? hard style. Wing Tsun? softer than Aikido. Flipside? practically limp.

**ShrekBJJ** · Posted On: 10/01/2007 6:54am

Can October be Wing Tsjun or Wing Tsun Sucks Month?

Gotta love those secret techniques. Seriously what's the deal with them? I can understand how a lesser seen and known technique might help you against someone else who knows your style but how is a "secret" technique gonna help agianst someone who doesn't your system so it's all new to him?

What is October going to be anyway?

**TheBigSwede** · Posted On: 10/02/2007 3:11am

Teh deadly wing fun

**ShrekBJJ** · Posted On: 10/02/2007 3:53am

I just got the _ing __un thing.

Sorry

**Flipside** · Posted On: 10/02/2007 2:29pm

You all take yourself way to serious and seem to have overall high testosteron levels. I stumbled upon the thread and replied as objective and neutral as possible, and indeed gorgot to check the date. I didn't even mentioned the anti-grapple and the deadly finger pokes, throat strikes and low kicks.
With refinements of the technics, I meant that in the wing tsun of Keith Kernspecht some movements are simplified thus becoming less effective.
As for who I am: I am 24, live in belgium, Ghent and I train Wing Tsjun, Eskrima and Aikido. I am a sculptor for a living. I take private lessons Wing Tsjun from Paul Vandevelde, under Thommy Boehlig. Some fragments of the wing tsjun demo can be found on youtube (chi sao).

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 10/02/2007 2:35pm

Originally Posted by Flipside

You all take yourself way to serious and seem to have overall high testosteron levels. I stumbled upon the thread and replied as objective and neutral as possible, and indeed gorgot to check the date. I didn't even mentioned the anti-grapple and the deadly finger pokes, throat strikes and low kicks.
With refinements of the technics, I meant that in the wing tsun of Keith Kernspecht some movements are simplified thus becoming less effective.
As for who I am: I am 24, live in belgium, Ghent and I train Wing Tsjun, Eskrima and Aikido. I am a sculptor for a living. I take private lessons Wing Tsjun from Paul Vandevelde, under Thommy Boehlig. Some fragments of the wing tsjun demo can be found on youtube (chi sao).

Oh so you were trying to say you have the real Bing Dun.

I don't know what a testosteron is but, if it makes you want to chun, I don't want any of it.

**Tom Kagan** · Posted On: 10/02/2007 2:42pm

Originally Posted by Flipside

... some movements are simplified thus becoming less effective.

So, by inference from the above statement, more complicated movements means more effective.

Gotcha.

**Flipside** · Posted On: 10/02/2007 3:00pm

Originally Posted by Tom Kagan

So, by inference from the above statement, more complicated movements means more effective.

Gotcha.

No, just different ways depending on the situation.

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Oh so you were trying to say you have the real Bing Dun.

Nope

Originally Posted by It is Fake

I don't know what a testosteron is but, if it makes you want to chun, I don't want any of it.

That's the most stupid reply I have ever heard.

**Kung-Fu Joe** · Posted On: 10/02/2007 3:18pm

Originally Posted by Flipside

No, just different ways depending on the situation.

But that's not what you said. What you said was, "I meant that in the wing tsun of Keith Kernspecht some movements are simplified thus becoming less effective." Which asserts that the more complex movements are thereby more effective. This very well may be the case. Lord knows, if someone simplified a standard punch to the point where nothing but the elbow was providing the mechanism of the attack, it wouldn't be anywhere near as effective as a strike with good hip rotation and proper form.

However, overly complex maneuvers tend to be terribly ineffective. If your typical shoulder-lock requires eight steps when a similar or equivalent technique in another style requires only three, yours will obviously be the inferior in practical application. There's simply much more that can go wrong in those extra steps, given the unpredictability of a resisting fighter.

So, are you saying that Keith Kernspecht watered-down techniques which were already efficient, or are you saying that he culled some of the more grandiose maneuvers from his teaching?

--Joe

**Tom .C** · Posted On: 10/02/2007 3:21pm

That's the most stupid replie I have ever heard.[/quote]

Just wait, we're just getting started!!!

**Flipside** · Posted On: 10/02/2007 3:37pm

Originally Posted by Kung-Fu Joe

But that's not what you said. What you said was, "I meant that in the wing tsun of Keith Kernspecht some movements are simplified thus becoming less effective." Which asserts that the more complex movements are thereby more effective. This very well may be the case. Lord knows, if someone simplified a standard punch to the point where nothing but the elbow was providing the mechanism of the attack, it wouldn't be anywhere near as effective as a strike with good hip rotation and proper form.

However, overly complex maneuvers tend to be terribly ineffective. If your typical shoulder-lock requires eight steps when a similar or equivalent technique in another style requires only three, yours will obviously be the inferior in practical application. There's simply much more that can go wrong in those extra steps, given the unpredictability of a resisting fighter.

So, are you saying that Keith Kernspecht watered-down techniques which were already efficient, or are you saying that he culled some of the more grandiose maneuvers from his teaching?

--Joe

An example: in the second form, Kernspecht teaches a three times the same bong, while in that of Allan Fong (also a student of leung ting) we have a bong, a striking bong and a bong coming from below. Depending on the situation you can use the one that fits the most.