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  1. archangel45 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 5:05pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: akido tei, british karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i think you need to meet some of the instructors and see for yourself?

    you are commenting on something you have no idea about

    while i respect your experience, i believe you need to go for yourself
  2. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 5:13pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok I'm going to bite.

    Who invented Aikido te ?
    Who was that person's aikido instructor
    What grade did the inventor or Aikido te obtain and from which authority
    How many years did the inventor of Aikido te train in mainline aikido and which style was that
    Which organisation(s) did the inventor of aikido te belong
    What does "Aikido Te" actually mean

    Ok so archangel45, these are simple enough questions to answer.

    Just so that you don't retort with "who are you to question my sensei" shite.

    I have studied mainline aikido for over 20 years
    I study Iwama Ryu
    I hold a sandan
    My instructor is a recognised rokkudan who trained in Japan
    I held affiliation to Aikido World Headquarters in Japan for 11 years

    I also teach Koryu Iai (Muso Shinden Ryu) and Kendo
  3. Sisyphus is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2008 10:17am


     Style: Japanese Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Simio de las Rocas
    I also teach Koryu Iai (Muso Shinden Ryu) and Kendo
    But Sir, are you?
    "one of the countries leading experts in the Japanese weapons of Nunchaku and (his first love) Japanese sword."

    Other than the grammatical oops (possesive case) within that sentence, we could have the debatable issue that the Nunchaku historically was not really a weapon - but an Okinawan farming implement.

    But what would really be of interest is if any of the mainline British Japanese Sword Art Associations - of which there are several - whose members travel to Japan to study and locally host senior JSA sensei - would even know of this expert?
  4. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/19/2008 10:22am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphus
    But Sir, are you?
    "one of the countries leading experts in the Japanese weapons of Nunchaku and (his first love) Japanese sword."
    I haven't a fucking clue what he (they) teach but yes, I do study and teach MSR.
    But what would really be of interest is if any of the mainline British Japanese Sword Art Associations - of which there are several - whose members travel to Japan to study and locally host senior JSA sensei - would even know of this expert?
    You want the answer now or later ?
  5. itsgold is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2008 11:19am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Boxing, Karate, Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is an old thread but it seems that it is still alive. This is my first post on the forums and I registered purely to see if Bullshido had anything on the "BAMA" because I once trained with them and wanted to compare my impressions with someone else's. This was spurred because I recently came across them recruiting on the streets of Bath in the UK. I'll post my experiences.

    First off, I should state that I was kicked out of the school I went to (not literally) because I was told I had to cease training in Ju-Jitsu and Tai Chi (yeah - go on, make comments, it was interesting to me). I was told that 'Bushido is the way and the only way.' The line someone quoted above about watching other martial arts, but not participating was printed on the back of our BAMA licence books (or the inside cover), but I found it unconvincing even then and doubly so now that I'm away from that group. This was about six years ago. I don't know how large the organisation has grown since then, but I get the impression it has spread somewhat. All this is by way of being a bit of a disclaimer because I want the circumstances apparent. My leaving wasn't acrimonious, but I did think the reasons were stupid and I was sad to go as at the time I thought my teacher was a good one. It did save me 12 a week for an hours one on one session (their price is 25 pound an hour from what I've read, nowadays).

    My experience at the time was primarily karate (one not bad school for a year and then one real bruiser of a sensei who I met on a building job who was deeply passionate about "real" karate, tough and aggressive to take down two of the bouncers at a club and who was kind enough to adopt me as a student one on one. He did sort of molest me though, which only goes to show you can never tell - am a boy). Anyway, I've seen enough other karate schools to know that I was fortunate in learning it as a proper martial art. As the "Bushido" mob are a karate school, joining them was pretty easy. They did insist that I start as a white belt and follow their strict syllabus and progression, though. Not a good thing in my case.

    My teacher could handle himself. Another teacher who took me on a couple of stand-in lessons was very good (or seemed so at the time). From having done both different types of martial art and different schools since then, my hindsight is that the main guy was not as good as I thought at the time (but very fit) and the other instructor was. The school was fairly formal, begininning and ending with zazen (sp?) and bows. Japanese phrases were used for begin, stop, thank you, etc. There was a moderate amount of emphasis on physical fitness. One on one teaching is beneficial, but it depends on whether you are willing to shell out that sort of cash for the benefit (and lose the camaraderie of a group). They occasionally did multiple student sessions and the very occasional meet-up session where all the students and teachers got together for some "light sparring." Being karate, this was indeed light, in the sense that it was no gloves and no real punching each others lights out. I think some real violence is vital to really develop as a martial artist.

    Warning signs were subtle at first and increasingly obvious. There was the whole formality of it and the hierarchical strictness, culminating in the great reverence for the "Shudan" at the top who had brought the knowledge of Bushido Karate back from his teacher in Japan. (I think, but am not certain, that his name was Pete Delane from above - it sounds familiar). There was the literature which I showed to a Japanese girl I was close to who told me that it was meaningless, didn't make sense). My teacher was insistent that this was some special phrases that had been given to "Shudan" in Japan. I tried to explain that I had an authentic Japanese person on hand, but got nowhere. As someone mentioned elsewhere, the first lesson did indeed begin with a tape recording of "Shudan" explaining the virtues of the BAMA. From the start, there was quite a bit of "Bushido is the way" and talk of training the mind. I told the teacher that my mind was already pretty good, thanks, and I mainly just wanted to hit people better. I'm a pretty forceful personality, and looking back, I think it's possible that my experience may have been different to some others who voiced less objection to the "philosophy stuff."

    On the brief tangent of mystical stuff, there was talk about projecting kimi (sp?) and hints that you would learn more at higher levels. I've studied hypnosis and wasn't over-impressed with my teachers abortive attempt at demonstrating the difference that projecting kimi made to ones immovability. But hey - visualisation is a valuable technique to master so it's not a problem in itself (though I think it might be later on, more on this shortly). I never reached the higher levels in my year and a bit there (gradings few and far between and syllabus segregated by rank), but I overheard a higher ranked class being quizzed on some parable about foxes (I think it was foxes. Definitely something like that). Not long before I left, I did attend a national seminar event given by the "shudan" (I'm 80% sure now this guy's name was Pete Delane). This was where the warning bells get loud. In reverse order of "warningness", there was firstly the considerable length of time spent on telling us all how great Bushido was, how great we were for being part of it, how we were great because we were part of it, etc. This all followed on from a bunch of knackering training (doubly so for me who cycled for two days to get to the seminar / grading). But hey - it's a pep talk, they want us to show dedication. I'm aware of it, but I tolerate. Secondly, they announce a "black belt" weekend, where you can pay your 200 (I can't remember how much it actually was, sorry) for the intensive two-day session and come away with your black belt. Okay - massive alarm bell there. I don't know how this meshed with the money-making - perhaps they just weren't thinking long term, or perhaps people were just pushed until they "failed" or if they thought they actually could instill that much training in someone in a weekend and have it stick. But at any rate, that was when I made up my mind to not pursue their grading system any further. I remember watching the teachers' faces and seeing some of them look uncomfortable at this. But thirdly, and this is actually worse than the "buy a black belt" gimmick, was what I believe was a staged demonstration of mystical powers. Now I could be wrong, it could be that it was genuine and someone was just suggestible and responded well, but we had a student faint (apparently) from exhaustion or heat or whatever. The "Shudan" (does anyone know what that means, by the way, please?) walked up to the student made some gesture and told him to "get up and go outside," which the student obligingly then woke up and did. As I mentioned, I have actually studied hypnotism and by the looks of things, I'd say that the student was someone who was suggestible and had previously been primed to faint and recover, rather than being complicit, per se. No, you can't know these things, but my intuition and observation of them both, made me strongly suspect this.

    This is all about six years ago and I don't know much about their current state, though I've occasionally seen their ads pinned up here and there and felt a certain distaste. My impression at the time was that the organisation had some quite cult like tendencies. There were some good teachers I met in it. The overall standard of ability in terms of combat readiness was a low average based on the opinion of my Today Self. (That's low average for martial artists, not people in general). One of the best people I "sparred" with there was a white belt who'd done a couple of years of Ju Jitsu, but the system didn't tolerate a white belt who was good, he plugged away at his kata with the rest of us. The biggest problem at all (except for your pocket) is BAMA's efforts to turn students into people with great confidence in the superiority of their art. At the end of the day it's a karate school with pretensions and some dubious, light indoctrination (or maybe I got out before it got heavier).

    To this day, my chief resentment is that on my final lesson my teacher got me to get changed into full gi, etc., just to ask me if I would stop going to other schools and telling me I had to leave when I said I wouldn't. After over a year of training with the guy, he owed me better than to talk down to me and be that stiff. It was a shame. I'd told him the week before that I'd picked up a couple of other schools and he said he'd have to check it out with his superior.

    I would have left after a little while anyway. Mixing it up in Kung Fu and Ju-Jitsu classes ended up being much more fun, whilst the bonkers Tai-Chi, Hsing-I, Pa Kua teacher I also found had enough mystical philosophy for anyone. Bushido Karate didn't really teach me as much as any of those.

    My advice to anyone is to steer clear of them, though no disrespect to those couple of teachers that I thought did teach me well (and the cute one who didn't teach me but I wished she had. ;) ).

    That was a long post, but I didn't make you read it. And it might be of use / interest to people like me who googled their way in here. I'd really love to hear responses from other BAMA escapees.

    Regarding the Akido-te, I can't comment on the validity of the Japanese, but I just remember it as being locks with hitting people once they were applied.

    Hope someone found this interesting, it's been good to vent after all this time,

    -Gold.

    EDIT: Actually, I'm leaving the above post as it is, but typing it all has started to bring back some more memories. And actually, I'm feeling less neutral about BAMA than I may have felt when I wrote the above. I remember other more culty elements now, particularly surrounding the founder of the BAMA, that he could answer all questions, stuff like that. I think joecoss had very good advice. Walk away from these people. Try a few different schools and see what suits you, but be really cautious with them and particularly, especially when they tell you that they're teaching you to be able to handle any fight. I remember now being told I'd be able to be confident of winning any old fight on the street against ordinary people. Even six years ago I wasn't stupid enough to believe that (maybe eight years ago. ;) ), That sort of stuff was like water off a ducks back to me which is probably why it never really sank in, but now it's coming back to me, I realise how misguided and dangerous some of their teaching could be.
    Last edited by itsgold; 7/13/2008 11:36am at .
  6. wazzer is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2008 5:03pm

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     Style: none

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have just stumbled across these forums whilst doing a google for Pete Delane. Why was I searching the internet for this man? I was looking for information on him and the BAMA in order to show a friend which instructors to avoid.

    Allow me to introduce myself...

    I am an ex BAMA member, it has been over ten years since I left the BAMA under far from favourable circumstances. I had reached the rank of 2nd Dan in Bushido Karate when I suddenly realised that I was being duped by my instructors and Master Shudin ( Pete Delane used to call himself that, then he changed it to Grandmaster Chusan ). I was there at the very first "Master's Class" weekend, I participated in the opening on the extended Dojo at "Cotsfield" ( Mr Delanes residence in Westbury-On-Severn, Gloucestershire ), I also attended the second set of juketsudo-ryu classes ( this was called the Master's Class ) held every Tuesday evening at Cotsfield, tought by Murray Bruton who is now referred to as Master something.

    I spent several years training in the BAMA, I trained with Sensei Gary Gregory who also left under less than favourable circumstances but who went on to forum his own school ( http://thebudofoundation.co.uk/default.aspx). During my training I was "fast tracked" through the ranks as I had mentioned that I would possibly like to instruct one day. What this basically meant was that I paid more than others for what I though at the time to be special lessons. Please understand that the BAMA was my first contact with any MA organisation, to being with I believed everything I was told.

    So I paid my money ( 15 per hour for a 1 on 1 lesson, 15 for a grading, 150 for Master's Class Weekends, 15 for Master's class lessons on a Tuesday). Some weeks I would be asked to pay 200 plus for my tuition fees.

    I would like to say that I have proof that Mr Delane does not hold the Qualifications he claims, too much time has passed for me to being some sort of slanging match about this subject, but I will say that the BAMA is simply a cash cow for Mr Delane and his Wife, Lynne. I would advise anyone to simply walk away from them and go to a different school to study.

    I trained in Aikido-Te. It's a bag of crap. I trained in the BAMA's form of Kenjitsu, I have since learned that that's also a load of rubbish. Mr Delane claimed to have studied under Master Fuji in Japan for over a year. I know this to be a falsehood and it's simply a lie to increase his credentials.

    I will leave you with an example of what I saw / heard and then will sign off and leave you good people to get on with it.

    One of the instructors ( a 3rd Dan at the time ) fell ill with Leukemia about 11 or 12 years ago now. Forgive me but I cannot remember his name, but there was ( probably still is ) a picture of him on the wall in the main dojo at Cotsfield. Mr Delane visited this chap in hospital and laid his hands on him, claiming to be healing him. Mr Delane then proceeded to tell us Black Belts that he had healed this instructor and that he would make a full recovery within weeks. The following week the poor fellow caught an infection and was dead.
    Last edited by wazzer; 7/13/2008 5:27pm at .
  7. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2008 5:37pm

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Whilst I am genuinely "enthralled" to read these accounts I'd like to point out two important things should you [both of you] choose to post here again.

    1. Making an accusation requires you to back that allegation up with evidence
    2. Stating you have proof [of whatever] but then fail to supply evidence of such will most likely render you labelled a troll. And possibly even banned in the worst case.

    Now, I've never met Delane or trained in any of the supposed systems he teaches but, earlier in this thread I stated my opinions without making an accusation of any sort, if you guys want to be taken seriously - more importantly - you want your opinions and experiences of Delane to be taken seriously please back up what you've both stated with evidence of:

    A -- itsgold. You stated... He did sort of molest me

    B -- wazzer. You stated... I have proof that Mr Delane does not hold the Qualifications he claims

    Time to address these points with specifics.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  8. itsgold is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2008 6:25pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Boxing, Karate, Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape
    A -- itsgold. You stated... He did sort of molest me
    Ah, a bit of clarification - as should hopefully be very clear from the post that I wasn't talking about Pete Delane or anyone in the BAMA school. That was just a guy who used to teach me karate a long time ago (before I got onto the BAMA section) and I only posted it because I thought it was an amusing counterpoint to how good a teacher and what a hard case he was. I am certainly not going to give any hints or names that would embarrass the guy on an online forum. I was kind of young at the time (not illegally so) and I'm pretty sure if I were going to be traumatised, it would have happend by now. Anyway, if there's any confusion, that guy had nothing to do with the BAMA and I don't think there's any need to prove it happened as I'm not identifying anyone.

    As to proving what I've said about the BAMA. Hmmm. Well it's not my intention to be disrespectful of this forum (especially as I've only just registered) and I'll do my best to meet it's policies. I can understand that people might ask for evidence of a claim if its in dispute. Most of my "claims" though, are fairly simple recollections whilst the rest can be checked through BAMA's literature. Things like the "black belt weekend" and the 'reviving of the fainted' stunt have to come down to witness statements. There was a grading / seminar held in Winchcombe in Gloucsteshire (and I remember the place well enough cause I bloody well cycled about eighty miles from Nottingham to get there) and there was easily a hundred of us there. It would be... 2002 ? I'd have to find someone else who was there to prove it, though I imagine the "black belt weekend" scheme could be verified by anyone who is or was a member of the BAMA assuming they still run it. Incidentally, reading a post about the BAMA elsewhere, an explanation for why they would do this was given. Apparently the economic interest would come from black belts being able to recruit and teach themselves, thus providing a new revenue stream to the higher-up(s) who take a cut.

    For the quality of the teaching, I can only give the subjective opinion of a MA of middling ability who has trained in four or five martial arts, but only two with real dedication. I'm not the best qualified to judge, so people are welcome to take my assessment with that in mind. I'm not saying that the teachers I had at the BAMA were bad, or that the standards were dreadful, but I certainly consider the level of both to have been higher at other places I have trained. Admittedly it's subjective, but I'm not sure how I could prove it.

    Things like the dodgy-Japanese should be something you can check (people have already commented in this thread). I could add a few names of instructors and stuff to make my account more vivid, but I don't really want to get to specific out of politeness. I trained in the Nottingham school on the top floor of some great big red-brick building near the centre. There was also a very cute sensei who I never got to study with. :(

    I can't speak for Wazza, but the things he or she is saying about the "laying on of hands" and the dodgyness of some of the "We're so Japanese" elements fit with my own experience of the school and my impressions of Pete Delane. Without knowing me, you obviously can't prove my word is reliable, but it is at least an extra voice that happens to be saying the same thing.

    It's good to see Wazza's response as I don't recall ever really discussing this with any other people who were in the BAMA. They do seem to market themselves quite aggressively and if you listen to what they teach, they are out there saying they are the supreme way. And they certainly hype up the mystical abilities of their founder. Correction - if I'm being strictly accurate I should say that my own teacher hyped up Pete Delane's mystical abilities, but the impression I had was that this was the general state of affairs. I've just remembered another detail - and this one will really get you - I was told that you were only ever allowed to ask the Shudan three questions. Seriously! You were allowed three questions on the occasions when you had earnt the privilege of training with him. And I remember being told how a few minutes training with him was worth its weight in gold and could change your technique completely.

    The more I remember about this, the more I wonder why I didn't leave right then and there. But it kept me fit and if it wasn't the best training I could be having, it wasn't the worst. I think that was dependent mostly on your particular instructor, though. I'd be happy to prove my experience with BAMA if you like, but it's mostly just my recollection. Wazza will have to comment on the more specific accusations he has made. Mines just my personal experience.

    I hope that clears things up a bit where I'm coming from. I don't have a greivance to carry out. I do get concerned when I see a leaflet for the BAMA or someone recruiting for them. I could see it getting out of hand and being quite destructive to some people who weren't as cheerfully skeptical as I was.
    Last edited by itsgold; 7/13/2008 6:28pm at .
  9. Drayu is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2009 8:35am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If need to know more see the following website from the man who was the number 2 in Bushido Academy of Martial Arts. As you will see, the truth is now here for all. The majority of the senior grades have left, leaving only a few totally controlled believers of Pete Delane (aka Master Chusan)

    http://www.seishindojo.co.uk/blog/blog.html
    Last edited by Drayu; 4/24/2009 8:39am at .
  10. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2009 12:12pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mohamed Jihad View Post
    I'll wager a bet that if really pushed on the issue the instructors at that school are primarily Karate based, and have very little if any real experience in a credible line of either aikido or iaido, indeed I'd seriously doubt if they had middle or senior yudansha in either art.
    Never responded to a posting this old before, but I'll take the bait. I've looked up the "karate" in which these BAMA types are supposedly based. Now I'm multitasking and might have missed something, but I see very little indication of Karate in any of the instructor bios, and what I do find related to interesting titles such as "za zen karate" and "zen shin ryu karate".

    Further searching, in quest of anything resembling actual lineage, reveals phrases such as "studied wado-ryu in Japan", "studied shotokan" or "learned kyokushin". Specific ranks attained, fight-stats or the like? Haven't found any yet. I'd like to think this lack of specifics is a bit, um, unusual among those who claim to be instructors, but...sadly...it's all too common.

    Karate-based? I'm not convinced. Their credentials in Karate appear to be about on-par with their credentials in any other actual MA.
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