How do you verify a school is not BS?

**migo** · Posted On: 9/28/2007 1:49pm

Capoeira's high on the art ladder, and there's some serious legitimacy to the art aspect in it (the fact that the common history is in doubt notwithstanding). Capoeira has a great workout, I have yet to do a better warm-up than one I've done for Capoeira - Bikram and Ashtanga Yoga come close in terms of giving a work-out that has you feeling good afterwards instead of cramped. Martial wise, the roda is alive and goes from no contact to hard contact. Capoeira's definitely a good art if you're looking for lots of art with a respectable ammount of martial.

**Olorin** · Posted On: 9/28/2007 4:07pm

Originally Posted by pnwnorseman

Well I'm hoping to find a decent Kung Fu school in my area. I'm in the burbs just outside seattle...

From what I understand Seattle has a lot of MA gyms. Like people have been saying check them out yourself and see what you think. Also ask if they do regular sparing. If they respond with something like "we do not spar, our style is to dangerous to spar" it is probably not a very good class. If they do spar, ask about what kind of rules they use, if it is just stop start point sparing it might not be what you are looking for. Also ask what they charge, do they require you to sign up/pay for months of classes up front?

If you find a school that spars hard and trains hard it is probably a decent place to train.

**Maxui** · Posted On: 10/04/2007 4:57am

If you are looking for a reputable school have a look at Dr Yang Jwing Ming http://www.ymaa.com
If memory serves he has a school in Seattle

Hope this helps

Matt

**rhcp430** · Posted On: 10/04/2007 6:53am

lineage does not matter imo.
go there, get a feel for the school and judge for yourself

**Teh El Macho** · Posted On: 10/04/2007 7:23am

Originally Posted by migo

Looking at lineage is a very TMA/Bullshido verification method. People who try to verify lineage for anything other than interest's sake are practicing bullshido.

Going by watching the class is about the only way you can figure that out. You can take two judo schools, both with the same lineage, and one can be crap and the other great. It can depend on how they train. Judo schools that stop the moment they hit the ground are crap - even if they're good at throws. Judo schools that continue and ensure they keep dominant position for a couple seconds after a throw are good. Small differences there, and it really depends on the attitude of the instructors. Technique can be the same, randori intensity can be the same, but there's a small detail that can be a serious problem for fighting. The same can be said about BJJ schools. You can have the same lineage, one trains standup and vale tudo, the other starts from the knees 100% and doesn't do any striking. One's legit, the other is bullshido.t

McDojoism can be figured out by looking at the school and not actually watching or participating in the class. You can also have a McDojo that still offers good training. It doesn't suddenly stop being a McDojo if you learn to be a good fighter.

:icon_scra

**Asriel** · Posted On: 10/04/2007 8:24am

Macho, I think he means that they should carry on to Groundwork?

**jdinca** · Posted On: 10/04/2007 11:50am

Originally Posted by migo

Looking at lineage is a very TMA/Bullshido verification method. People who try to verify lineage for anything other than interest's sake are practicing bullshido.

So if instructor "X" says that he was trained by the "Grand poohbah" of such and such a style, how are you going to verify that without checking lineages? It's certainly not the end all to determining the quality of a school but it should be used where appropriate and be added into whatever other information you gather, which includes watching classes.

**Bishop** · Posted On: 10/04/2007 7:05pm

Man, I was going to post up some well thought out stuff. Then I saw "Asriels'" avator and completely lost my train of thought.
Anyway, if someone is going to charge you to watch a class; walk away and don't come back. He's just telling you that everything at his school is about the money.
You should be able to watch any class at any school your interested in. You shouldn't have to participate in a "free" class, and certainly shouldn't have to pay before you can watch.
I've always wondered about instructors who don't allow people to watch. I don't see a problem with a instructor who has a small club and is not interested in recruiting more students, keeping his classes closed to visitors. But if your going to try and recruit someone, let them see what their getting into.
My personal policy is that anyone is allowed to watch classes. And I also recommend they visit other schools before they decide on whether they'll join mine or someone else's. There's hundreds of systems out there. So everyone should be able to find what they want if they do some good research

**persnickity cat** · Posted On: 10/30/2007 11:07pm

After my experience in trying to find a decent Tai Chi teacher in my area, all I can say is investigate, investigate, investigate. Visit as many schools as you can, talk with many teachers and students so you can get a feel of those places and the "dojo culture" and go from there. If any school starts claiming that their teacher is the "best in the world" or that the dojo is the "best place in the universe to practice" run away as quick as you can. I agree that prospective students should be allowed to watch and observe classes. If you are going to invest time, money and energy in practice, you have to make sure the school is legit. Otherwise, what tragically happens is that people will spend that time, money and energy for several years only to find out that what their school says they are teaching is not quite what it is supposed to be. I think finding out about your instructor's background is very important -- at the very least know who they trained with and if they are telling the truth about their training.

That's my two-cents worth. Hope it helps!

**golsa** · Posted On: 10/30/2007 11:21pm

Best tip I can offer applies to pretty much every facet of human competency:

if they think they're perfect, they're incompetent.
if they will openly talk about mistakes (own up to, what they could have done different, etc), they've made they're competent.

Thus, Ashida Kim thinks he is super mega ultra grandmaster ninja because he isn't capiable of the most basic self-insight, while someone that has truely mastered their art doesn't even know it because they are still trying to be more honest with themself and improve.

Feel free to apply this to MA instructors, sparring partners, potential girlfriends, people you hire, etc!