Looking for ex Jung SuWon / Tae Yun Kim students (Part 2)

**Failed Student** · Posted On: 9/28/2007 3:08pm

My recollection of those weekends was of very little sleep, rigorous training, and my duty was to get up early and start the cooking fires. Drinking water had to be brought in, but there was a pond for cooking water. I remember the water was kind of muddy, but TYK's mother assueed us it was okay - I guess the boiling would kill the bacteria...

I didn't deal well with the barley tea, rice, and condiments, and snuck some cookies and candy bars into my backpack so I could get my sugar high.

**bemused** · Posted On: 9/28/2007 3:26pm

I liked the Self-Discovery Weekends for the most part. Since there were usually lots of beginning non-COL students there, TYK couldn't be abusive. COL had to work pretty hard on the cooking, though. We were told not to let any of the non-COL students, especially white belts, talk among themselves without one of us there, which is a typical cult recruitment practice.

**clarehoare** · Posted On: 9/28/2007 3:31pm

Recruitment has definitely stopped for the most part since the weekends did.

**HerLesson** · Posted On: 9/28/2007 4:00pm

Originally Posted by Kathy Kim

Clar...everyone had their own experience in the Sam Tang.....Do you feel better after you get out of a steam room? I guess I did halluciate, or whatever, because when I let it all go at the end, I didn't see the top of the Sam Tang but I saw nothing but the stars in the sky. I don't know how that happens I just know it did. It was a bit of a money maker at the time she only charged $195.00 for the weekend. She supplied the food, but all of col had to cook it and prepare it. Guests got to find out about Korean cooking and it is nice to go to, but col did a lot of work for her to be able to have those weekends. The instructiors had the brunt of the work in the beginning. They had to build the Som Tang, start the fires, set things up.....It was fun making the Bongs and bong training... It was a good experience, and that is how she recruited people.

I believe the Indians smoked peyote(sp?) when they do the sweat thing and they halluciate and have out of body experiences. My friend used to date John Denver, over 25 years ago, and he was involved with the yearly traditional sweat thing, that's what I was told.

**bemused** · Posted On: 9/28/2007 4:07pm

Others have posted some useful general info on cults. I thought this excerpt from The Guru Papers by Kramer and Alstad might shed some light on why TYK seems to have gotten worse in recent years.

Stages of Cults, Proselytizing to Paranoia

Most cults follow a predictable progression of two distinct stages....The similarity of these stages among diverse groups...demonstrates how being a cult leader creates a track that is difficult, if not impossible, to escape.

Messianic Proselytizing

Cults generally put out a similar message....They are the heralds of a new age which will bring a transformative quality to living and solve the world's problems. As long as the movement is gaining in strength and membership, this attitude is reinforced....Their attitude toward outsiders is one of benign superiority....

The first stage is messianic, with the message being that all labors of the group, including the guru's, are aimed at a higher purpose beyond the group, such as saving mankind....The major emphasis is on proselytizing to bring in new converts. While there is still hope of becoming the acknowledged herald of a new order, [the guru] remains happy and is relatively benign in his treatment of those who have surrendered to him....

The group itself becomes an echo of the guru, with the members fulfilling each other's needs. Within the community there is a sense of both intimacy and potency, and a celebratory, party-like atmosphere often reigns....The guru is relatively accessible, charming, even fun.

The energy and excitement of proselytizing, conquest, gaining public attention, and of newcomers flocking to the group are what makes a cult feel vital and prosperous....Because cults are relatively closed systems, proselytizing is their main form of communication with the outside world. New members are also a needed source of revenue....

Apocalyptic Paranoia

A time inevitably comes when the popularity and power of the group plateaus and then begins to wane....When the realization comes that humanity is too stupid or blind to acknowledge the higher authority and wisdom of the guru, the apocalyptic phase enters and the party is over....

The attitude of benign superiority toward outsiders characteristic of the expansionistic phase dramatically shifts....Now there are dire warnings about "the dangers of associating with anyone not on this path." The fervor shifts from world-saving to a holocaust mentality focused on the survival and protection of the group. Any member who leaves threatens the cohesiveness of the whole group. This mounting mistrust is not totally paranoid...because as the group becomes more closed and bizarre, outsiders react more negatively....Fear now becomes the primary mechanism of the leader and group to maintain power and cohesion....

Those not really "serious" leave, and others begin surreptitiously to question the leader's omniscience. In an attempt to counteract this, the group becomes more militaristic, demanding even greater obedience....Some recruiting of new members still occurs to balance off the losses of old ones....But a cult in decline has more trouble selling itself. It no longer looks that enticing or special....

The fun is over. The rewards are now put into the distant future (including future lives) and are achievable only through hard work. This not only keeps disciples busy and distracted, but is necessary because the flow of resources that came with expansion has greatly diminished. This glorification of work always involves improving the leader's property (the commune or ashram), increasing his wealth, or some grandiose project.

Whenever a guru's power needs are not being satisfied by expansion, he generally seeks more adulation from and control over those who have surrendered to him. He does so by more directly dictating how they spend their daily lives. Needing now more than ever to be his disciples' prime emotional bond, the guru undermines anything that interferes with this. Though...he becomes more remote, sending his dictates down the line....

Often [the guru] consciously or unconsciously blames those around him for the failure of his messianic aspirations. As the group's isolation increases, so does its paranoia toward outsiders, which can trigger violence. Those who drop out are often threatened, violently punished, or sometimes even murdered. This stage commonly results in scandal and tragedy.

**Kathy Kim** · Posted On: 9/28/2007 4:24pm

Bemused: Please don't let the last paragraph frighten you. There are too many of us out here for us be quiet , out of fear. Now we have to think of the greater good, so to speak. If anything should happen to anyone of us....hopefully justice will be done. Like was posted before, there are more than just us interested in the activities of the cult. thanks for the post though...it fits things to a Teeeeeeeeeeeee.

**HerLesson** · Posted On: 9/28/2007 5:10pm

bemused,
Wow, this certainly sounds like what is happening to COL.

Thank you for sharing, this is a great explanation for why she is becoming more and more looney. She certainly is going after specific ex-members with her nonsense law suits, i.e., the judge who went after the dry cleaners for millions of dollars for a pair of pants. I think she believes in her own fantasies.

**bemused** · Posted On: 9/28/2007 5:48pm

Originally Posted by Kathy Kim

Bemused: Please don't let the last paragraph frighten you. There are too many of us out here for us be quiet , out of fear. Now we have to think of the greater good, so to speak. If anything should happen to anyone of us....hopefully justice will be done. Like was posted before, there are more than just us interested in the activities of the cult. thanks for the post though...it fits things to a Teeeeeeeeeeeee.

I doubt current COL members would be violent toward outsiders or ex-members. I wouldn't put harassment past them, but as you and Chica have pointed out, they have other priorities.

**Kathy Kim** · Posted On: 9/28/2007 5:57pm

Originally Posted by bemused

I doubt current COL members would be violent toward outsiders or ex-members. I wouldn't put harassment past them, but as you and Chica have pointed out, they have other priorities.

I don't doubt it, I just think they are a little smarter and know they are being watched a little more careful now. There are cameras everywhere and you never know when you are looking into one or it is looking at what you are doing. I do believe that she will cause her own downfall by thinking she can get away with doing or having done to people whatever she wants done. All the puzzle pieces are being put together. People that were pitted against other people are stepping forward and speaking out. :hijackp:

**Kathy Kim** · Posted On: 9/28/2007 6:03pm

My most favorite part of COL guess what it was? I loved cooking for everyone. Cooking has always been something I have enjoyed and it was a way for me to show my feelings towards people. Maybe I'm part Italian. But I always put love into my cooking. Especially when I got to make the Thanksgiving dinner. Since I left the month before Thanksgiving I always wondered if anyone missed me there cooking. Course by then she had said all kinds of bad things about me. But know that you were all in my thoughts and heart.