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  1. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/13/2007 12:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are correct, literally.

    For the other readers, Apostol is referring to a true high pull. You can see a description of this lift at the following link in exrx.net

    http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/.../HighPull.html



    The cross-fit clips call them SDL/High Pulls, but the execution is a upright row. The way this exercise is done, it's impossible to 1) have the same grip width as in a high pull, and 2) to use a weight comparable to what one would use in a real high pull (as an olympic/power move.)

    The whole purpose of this exercise is to use a weight that allows you to do either 20 reps in fast execution, or to execute as many reps as possible in a given amount of seconds (.ie. 20 secs in a tabata set.)

    A "correction" that I do, if we can call it a correction, is that on my way up from the sumo deadlift, when my knees are about to become straight, I perform a hang pull. I drive it just as I would with a hang or high pull (in addition to trusting my hips forward, which comes naturally as I come up from the SDL.)

    The only difference from a real high/hang pull, is that, since I'm using a lower weight (to complete a tabata set), I can continue the high pull past my chest and finishing as if I were finishing an upright row.

    This single change makes a whole world of difference when you are on your third tabata set (worse when you are combining it with push presses.)

    A high pull or a hang pull is not defined by a weight that is heavy enough that it doesn't allow you to pass the bar past your chest. It's defined by how you drive the bar (as you pointed out.) This drive can be done either with a sufficiently heavy weight, or with something that allows you to do a tabata set.

    When I first saw that WOD clip, it indeed felt it was a upright row, which motivated me into changing the movement into a hang pull. If the person doesn't perform a hang pull, then it becomes an upright row executed just before obtaining a lockout in a SLD, just as you observed.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 11/13/2007 1:08pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  2. Apostol is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/13/2007 1:26pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I see what you're saying. I guess crossfit people like to use goofy terms sometimes.
  3. daGorilla is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/13/2007 1:32pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    Crossfit and medically supervised pple trying to lose weight do not combine. That trainer should have been castrated.

    The one concern I have about crossfit is the fascination with high reps using mid/heavy weights. High pulls in such high numbers cannot be good for the forearms on the long run. No way Jose.
    I think my opinion on the biggest problem with Crossfit is in the same vein as yours:

    They don't make it obvious to the newcomer that their posted workouts are intended to be what you're striving to achieve, not what the 'everyman' should do.

    On the other hand -- and they tend to share this attitude somewhat with Bullshido -- the information is there if you take the time to read the message boards and the FAQ, and generally 'do your homework' -- but they still put much of the onus on the newbie to find it for themselves.

    I've been doing crossfit for about 2 years, and while it's made a big difference for me, I am no where near doing many of their full-blown 'as Rx-ed' workouts of the day at the weights prescribed 21x225LB Deadlifts, for example), or within an 'elite' time (for example, a sub ten minute 'Helen' or sub 5-minute 'Fran')

    They could do a much better job of posting scaled workouts and making guidelines for newbies far more obvious and accessible. All it would take is a little basic Web design and a little work content-wise.
  4. handoverfist is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2007 1:13am


     Style: PLUR

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Totally off topic:

    Crossfit posts all their scaled WOD's here:

    http://forum.brandxmartialarts.com/v...a9cdcec3157228

    Totally on topic:

    I am just getting over a wrist injury (due to poor form on my cleans coincidentally) and now I want to get my wrist/grip strength up. Would you guys recommend doing these with sandbags?
  5. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2007 11:01am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the WOD-related link dude.

    You may want to create a new thread for the second question (since it's not a simple question.) This will allow others to answer the question without getting off-topic.

    Also, check the stickies since we have three ongoing mega-threads on grip/wrist/forearm training (link below, make sure to read the rules of posting at the bottom). In particular, check the thread titled "SEMI-MODERATED: Grip/Forearm Conditioning - An Ongoing Experiment of the Collective".

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61598

    But short answer: yeah, sandbag training is good for your grip. Just make sure you use wrist wraps. Once you have a wrist injury, it's better to play safe and wrap'em up.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 11/14/2007 11:11am at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  6. daGorilla is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2007 12:41pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by handoverfist
    Totally off topic:

    Crossfit posts all their scaled WOD's here:

    http://forum.brandxmartialarts.com/v...a9cdcec3157228

    Totally on topic:

    I am just getting over a wrist injury (due to poor form on my cleans coincidentally) and now I want to get my wrist/grip strength up. Would you guys recommend doing these with sandbags?
    Personally, if you have any kind of joint problem -- I'd recommend not doing anything that aggravates the joint if possible.

    Thanks to BJJ, Crossfit, and having kids (including 21-month old child that weighs north of 35 pounds...) --- I've had occasional elbow/wrist/joint issues crop up. They take a long time to heal (wrapped or otherwise) if you don't or can't give them ample time to recuperate.

    Unfortunately, it's tough to do anything weight-wise that doesn't aggravate the joints. Often, though, I'd just back off things like cleans and go for deadlifts, squats (front and back), running and rowing.

    Of course, your mileage may vary. I'm pushing 39, so I've got to be a bit more careful than your average 23 year old. :)
  7. zm_beta is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2007 4:17am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by handoverfist
    Totally off topic:

    Crossfit posts all their scaled WOD's here:

    http://forum.brandxmartialarts.com/v...a9cdcec3157228

    Totally on topic:

    I am just getting over a wrist injury (due to poor form on my cleans coincidentally) and now I want to get my wrist/grip strength up. Would you guys recommend doing these with sandbags?
    I busted both of my wrists due to **** advice when I was a weightlifting noob (do upright rows!). Don't strain your tendest joints with stuff like that, especially if you recently injured them. My wrist/grip strength got better by doing deadlifts without straps and some wrist-isolation excercises.

    Then again, I'm still a weightlifting noob, so take it with a grain of salt
  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/17/2007 10:07am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zm_beta
    I busted both of my wrists due to **** advice when I was a weightlifting noob (do upright rows!). Don't strain your tendest joints with stuff like that, especially if you recently injured them. My wrist/grip strength got better by doing deadlifts without straps and some wrist-isolation excercises.

    Then again, I'm still a weightlifting noob, so take it with a grain of salt
    What you said should be taken seriously. High repetitions of upright rows sounds like a bad idea with someone with weak forearms and wrists. I also developed problems long ago from this exercise.

    What I do is to try to perform a high pull with the grip just as if doing upright rows. I think this is the key to avoid injury. Let your whole body (in the high pull) bring the weight all the way up. Forearms and shoulders should not need to be engage as in upright rows (which are purely arm and shoulder.)

    Also, if you haven't seen them, check the stickies. We have three mega-threads related to grip and wrist conditioning. Check'em out.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
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