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  1. Aleem is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2007 2:04pm


     Style: Ex-wing chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    University _ing _un - LARPtastic!

    http://www.cukungfu.org/node/22

    In honour of _ing _un sucks month, here is a link to my former chun school at University. Its truly LARPtastic. They give their official line on sparring right here, and its quite funny ...

    Who wants to spar?
    Submitted by Dave on Thu, 09/28/2006 - 09:30.
    Why a leap of faith regarding non-sparring methods of training can pay off in the long term.

    It's not hard to find martial arts forums on the Internet innundated by passionate afficionados of various fighting styles who affirm the need for "sparring" to develop real fighting skills. Without sparring, the argument goes, there's simply no "proof" that a person's fighting techniques will stand up to a real fight. Worse still, they point to the danger of false confidence in a person's technique leading them to confrontations they're not equipped to deal with. Clearly there's more than a grain of truth in this, but it's not the whole story; if it was, we wouldn't have a leg to stand on by training in Wing Chun without sparring as part of our routine. So why don't we?

    Firstly, because the situation of sparring is just a 'model' of combat; it's not the real thing. Sparring with anyone requires a fair degree of trust that your partner will respect certain rules - banning many nasty moves like attacks to the eyes, groin, biting, or using choking or other techniques with excessive force. In a street fight, these things can and do happen, making real fighting so horrific that a sane person will avoid it at all costs. The upshot of this is that an accomplished sparrer might well find themselves coming unstuck in a bar brawl where their habitual rules get taken away. But when they press us for a more effective way to train for "real" combat, sparrers are unimpressed by our chi sao drills and lat sao programmes. It doesn't look anything like fighting, so how can we claim we know how to fight?

    Another answer evenually comes up. Our drills are for training body and mind to move in a combat-optimized way; they're never intended to be a complete model of the fight
    . (On a more philosphical level, we consider combat to be something infinitely complex that can only get better understood over a lifetime of training.)

    Another reason why we don't spar is because it hurts. Bruises, black eyes and cuts might appeal to macho types who buy DVD volumes of Ultimate Fighting Championship. But ask your boyfriend or girlfriend if that's what they want to see when you come back after training.
    A more important point is that, whilst most sparring cuts and bumps (hopefully) heal over time, the brief moments of pain may have a bigger cumulative effect - a psychological one. My wing chun teachers have found my snappy "jump" reflexes to be a major hindrance to my progress, not a help. Years of drilling and chi sao are finally getting my responses under conscious control - responses which are much more useful than reflexive jerks and not any slower. Had I spent the same time sparring, I might now be quite slick in the ring, but my contention is that I'd end up jumpier than ever.

    The choice of an art where we train to fight without sparring does therefore require some degree of faith that thousands of hours of lat sao, dan chi and poon sao will leave you defending yourself as well as any boxer or wrestler you're likely to meet. If you're short on faith or, more importantly, the perseverence to put those hours in, chances are wing chun won't be for you. Disappointment will be in store when, a year after starting, you find that your mate who took up karate instead can easily give you a pummelling. Serious injury will be in store when you find the rugby team your were mouthing off to in the pub aren't so easy to thrash single-handed..

    But there are people who will touch hands with a master of 25 years' experience and go, "Ooh. Power. Me want." They don't always make the best comedians, but they're the kind of people who take to what we do.
    Anyone else have links to their former LARP schools? When I read back over all this now, I can't believe I ever went there.
  2. Dagon Akujin is offline
    Dagon Akujin's Avatar

    "I feel naked I was so distracted by your penis"

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2007 3:34pm


     Style: Ving Tsun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My days of karate point sparring gave me the jumpy-defensive-get-away reaction I think this guy may be talking about. It compounded my need to act like a *****, and it was bad for me, I believe.

    Where I train, however, I get hit a bunch in chi-sao. As an added bonus, I don't act like a ***** about seeing a fist that is about to connect with me hard. In this respect, it has worked well for me.

    Would Boxing sparring have accomplished this? Yes.

    Would Muay Thai sparring have accomplished this? Yes.

    Would BJJ sparring have accomplished this? No.

    I think the poster though is a bit delusional though. _ing _un is not all about biting, eye-gouging, and kicks-to-the-nut-sack. If it was, what would be the point of getting in someone's face, close quarters, in order to PUNCH THEM IN THE FUCKING FACE? Anyone who says "Well, I could just kick them in the balls" is completely discounting _ing _un's answer to every single problem: PUNCH THEM IN THE FUCKING FACE.

    I'd also say that the poster is a bit of a *****. He doesn't want bruises? WTF? My first day of getting opened to tsui-mah my chest turned GREEN. Why? Because I got the **** beat out of me. "Oh, chi-sao teaches you to fight without fighting!" No, ************. Chi-sao teaches you to deal with hits, and to punch people in the fucking face. If you are falling back on ball-kicking, and don't know how to keep your structure when you get hit, then you are playing tag.

    Dagon
  3. ignatzami is offline
    ignatzami's Avatar

    l Travel To Get Choked!

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2007 3:42pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I submit my old WC schools MySpazz page.... enjoy

    http://www.myspace.com/syracusema
  4. ignatzami is offline
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    l Travel To Get Choked!

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2007 3:43pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Though to be fair they were a LOT better before my ex-Sifu started training under Sifu Crescione. He (ex-Sifu) used to believe in cross-training, sparring, integrating boxing drills and aliveness. He wanted us to spar.

    Now he refuses to take any student who trains somewhere else. Doesnt advocate sparring until higher belts and in short has slid back into one of those WC schools he always ragged on.
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/25/2007 3:45pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How the hell did I miss those videos?

    Drilling with MMA gloves? Wow.

    Unfortunately this is the chun sucks no videos of my old school.
  6. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2007 3:46pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ignatzami

    Now he refuses to take any student who trains somewhere else. Doesnt advocate sparring until higher belts and in short has slid back into one of those WC schools he always ragged on.
    Is that why you quit?


    Oh and you are in a stage of denial.
  7. Aikicat is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2007 6:48pm


     Style: MM to tha A

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Another reason why we don't spar is because it hurts. Bruises, black eyes and cuts might appeal to macho types who buy DVD volumes of Ultimate Fighting Championship. But ask your boyfriend or girlfriend if that's what they want to see when you come back after training.
    Love it.
  8. Southpaw is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2007 7:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The key to not having a panic reaction to someone trying to hit you in the face is getting hit in the face, or at least putting yourself in a position where people are trying to hit you in the face.

    Pretty deep huh?
  9. Kid Miracleman is offline
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    Rowsdower!

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2007 9:21pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: On Hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Not in the face! Not in the face!"
  10. patfromlogan is offline
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    Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2007 9:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Another reason why we don't spar is because it hurts, " and makes one "jumpy."
    I've always wondered what was wrong with my training.
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
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