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  1. Coach Josh is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/26/2007 12:08pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wrote some **** earlier but it didn't do through. So I will not be as concise now.

    1. Don't expect to be flipping people in MMA with 2 months of throwing practice.
    2. It takes years to develop the timing and footwork need to do it right.
    3. Guys like Karo are fearless and know the ends and outs of their techniques meaning they have a plan if they **** up.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  2. leere_form is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/26/2007 12:18pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jkartigue
    I wrote some **** earlier but it didn't do through. So I will not be as concise now.

    1. Don't expect to be flipping people in MMA with 2 months of throwing practice.
    2. It takes years to develop the timing and footwork need to do it right.
    3. Guys like Karo are fearless and know the ends and outs of their techniques meaning they have a plan if they **** up.
    i think that's why karo is one of the few MMA guys ballsy enough to throw seoi-nage.. everyone else is scared to get choked out, even if they know the technique.

    significant point brought up in the thread: throws like koshi-guruma and seoi-nage and pins like kesa gatame leave you vulnerable to getting your back taken.

    in judo, no biggie if you have good submission defense.

    in MMA, that's a big deal.. so although your judo throws might "work" just fine no-gi, your judo mentality and habits may need some adjusting. i eventually learned that after repeatedly: 1. landing on my face 2. getting my back taken 3. rolling the other guy on top of me...

    etc.
  3. Tomas Drgon is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2007 12:46pm


     Style: n/a

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by leere_form
    3. rolling the other guy on top of me...

    etc.
    Excellent point. Just yesterday at no gi I had a triceps hold and an underhook on a guy, I swung in for a beautiful uchimata that landed him square on his back with a good thud, ippon material all the way..., but the way I commited to the throw gave me so much momentum that I actually rolled over him and had to scramble from under his side control.

    Tomas
  4. Coach Josh is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/27/2007 9:27am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is another point I try to drive home for my Judo and MMA guys.

    CONTROL

    Most people who have trained in Judo for long times, myself included, tend to go to the sport aspect of throw and release. Many people have lost sight of the reason for the throw and the proper way to do a throw. If you throw and end up all fucked up or with the guy on your back then there was no reason to throw.

    One of the guys has developed a real good Harai. In his first MMA match he tossed a guy n his head knocking him out in 29 seconds. The ref was about to let the match continue because he said the guy slipped. I just about lost my fucking mind. They guy gets up with an imprint of the canvas on his forehead the size of a softball. The difference between him and my Judo guys is that he never competed in Judo so he makes sure to control his opponent when he throws.

    My wrestlers in MMA like Koshi guruma. I don't like them doing it because its not as good as Ogoshi but trying to get a wrestler to do anything is like trying to teach a cat to fetch. Honestly you should throw with an under hook. Until you get better at throwing you should do it the safest way possible. Under hooks and triceps control is the safest way. When you land the chance of them escaping your under hook and getting your back is very slim. Plus you should be landing dead on their chest which will produce a very result.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  5. MSphinx is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/27/2007 9:43am


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This match ends with quite a brutal throw.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2TQC_VPP-M
  6. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/27/2007 12:34pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jkartigue
    Many people have lost sight of the reason for the throw and the proper way to do a throw. If you throw and end up all fucked up or with the guy on your back then there was no reason to throw.
    That pretty much nails it. For any judoka who is planning in competing in mma, BJJ, or whatever, you absolutely must randori all the way through to submission. It can really change your emphasis when compared to randori to ippon. Overcommiting in a Judo match is no big deal if it gets you ippon. Ippon doesn't mean a damn thing when competing in mma or BJJ, and it ends up getting your back taken. Clearing guard after the takedown also gets to be a lot more important.

    In my club, we randori all the way through to sub pretty frequently. It amazes me how poorly some visiting judoka who have really good throws often do within this framework. It's terrible to see people just give up, or lie there, or turtle after a throw. What is that really accomplishing outside of a Judo tournament? Absolutely nothing. You'll be destroyed under any other ruleset, and it'd get you hurt in any type of self-defense situation. It is a horrible habit.

    Doing randori all the way through to sub will really help your transitioning to newaza and make you think of the real reasons for actually throwing someone. In classical Judo/JJJ a throw was only a set up for a finishing attack.
  7. Raitaro is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/27/2007 4:06pm


     Style: JKD, MuayThai, BJJ, Kali

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've had a considerable amount of practice in Judo anyway, it's just as off 3 months ago I didn't get formal lessons.
  8. Gustard is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2007 11:54am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    All of the throws, trips and reaps of Judo can be found in wrestling, under different names and set up differently. The grips are different too. The only thing is that they are not as high percentage so most places ignore them in order to train the high percentage takedowns.

    .
    This is nonsense.
  9. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2007 12:29pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maybe all is overstating it a little, but an awful lot of the bread and butter moves are the same. Watch the video I posted in this thread and tell me if you see something you don't recognize.
  10. Gustard is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2007 1:37pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze
    Maybe all is overstating it a little, but an awful lot of the bread and butter moves are the same. Watch the video I posted in this thread and tell me if you see something you don't recognize.


    I dont know wrestling very well, but Judo throws are incredible complex movements which take years to really get to grip with. It made me laugh that that guy at the begining reckons he can master uchi mata training for just three hours every other day for a couple of weeks. It takes thousands of repetitions for the move to be come automatic so you can do it fast. Theres no way youll have a really good uchjimata in such short time . When you do a throw in Judo you have so many things to remember at first - you move in , knees bent, pull up with left hand, wheres your right arm , back straight , straighetn knees bend back etc etc
    But then I notice you train Judo so you know all this anyway.
    Last edited by Gustard; 11/03/2007 1:42pm at .
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