Judo in the cage?

**Lu Tze** · Posted On: 9/23/2007 8:39am

I think Mike Swain did a no-gi judo video ages ago too, I'm talking VHS (or possibly Betamax!) here though so that might be a little harder to get a hold of.

Any no-gi judo is going to pretty much look like wrestling. There isn't really much a wrestler wouldn't recognize in judo, and vice versa, it's just the terminology differs so much the similarities aren't so clear online. I mean, how do fucking whizzer? WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN!?!

**leere_form** · Posted On: 9/23/2007 8:40am

in my experience, a lot of judo hip throws don't work great right up against the cage, since they require more space for your opponent to travel through..

uchimata is good to learn, but i recommend looking into ko-uchi-gari, o-uchi-gari, o-soto-gari (particularly in combination with harai goshi or harai makikomi). i say this because if you practice these throws, especially up against a wall/cage, i think you'll have more luck with those than some of the "larger," more space-dependent throws.

my two cents, anyway.

**Lu Tze** · Posted On: 9/23/2007 9:02am

Originally Posted by Raitaro

Hah, n00bs :S
No, still didn't work. It says the owner doesn't allow embeding of the video :S

Lol, fucking hell...

I can't post a URL as the board software converts it to embedded video automatically, however if you click on the vid it should act as a link to youtube.

**Sh0t** · Posted On: 9/23/2007 11:26am

Judo was my first MA. No gi changes things, but it's about a similar transition from no-gi BJJ IMO. Lots of good moves translate to no GI, just gotta adjust the grips and be even quicker.

I've been to Hayastan a few times, and I have the Karo "Judo for MMA" tapes, they are a solid purchase.

ON Mike Swain: I've never seen a produced studio no-gi tape, but I believe he had tape of one of his no-gi seminars. I went to one. He used to be a very good HS wrestler alongside judo too, not many know that. He has a book out now called "Clinch for MMA" which basically goes the judo style clinch game for MMA, with some greco stuff in there(because it's impossible not to be there).

It's a great book and highly recommend for judoka doing no-gi/mma. To be honest, it's my favorite judo book for any situation.

My favorite judo throw for no-gi/mma has to be the Seoi-Nagi(Ippon Seoi-nagi), which I don't think was mentioned in this thread.

I like it because the setup is very smooth from a dominant clinch position, lead leg-hip forward controlling ala greco.

**krazy kaju** · Posted On: 9/23/2007 2:12pm

Originally Posted by Lu Tze

I think Mike Swain did a no-gi judo video ages ago too, I'm talking VHS (or possibly Betamax!) here though so that might be a little harder to get a hold of.

Any no-gi judo is going to pretty much look like wrestling. There isn't really much a wrestler wouldn't recognize in judo, and vice versa, it's just the terminology differs so much the similarities aren't so clear online. I mean, how do fucking whizzer? WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN!?!

There are some similarities, but I've noticed that a lot of Judo-esque throws don't work in Freestyle or American Folkstyle Wrestling, as your center of gravity is really low.

There are some cool stuff in Folkstyle and Freestyle that you can do that looks similar to some Judo throws, like the front headlock throw, lateral drop, etc., but some throws like the uchi mata don't translate well into wrestling simply because of the stance. In Judo your stance is more upright due to the gi, as is your stance in MMA due to the danger of being kicked/kneed/elbowed/punched to the face when you're in a low stance, but in wrestling, you're going to end up in a very low stance.

Some people I've seen wrestle barely even drop levels when they shoot since their stance is so low.

**Goju - Joe** · Posted On: 9/23/2007 2:24pm

There's a wrestling throw that is basicly exactly the same as Uchi Mata, but with a whizer, which Karo uses.

A mule Kick throw?

I have seen Randy and Van Arsdale do it in the UFC

**Lu Tze** · Posted On: 9/23/2007 2:41pm

Yeah, I have basically had no contact with wrestling whatsoever (it just isn't around in the UK much), but even with very brief forays looking for it on youtube, I've managed to see uchi mata, ogoshi and tai otoshi as well as a full range of sweeps (they're more gake than gari though).

I'm not saying they're identical, and different rules and gi (or lack) are going to obviously change the emphasis on certain throws, but there wasn't much I couldn't recognize.

**krazy kaju** · Posted On: 9/23/2007 4:37pm

Originally Posted by Soju - Joe

There's a wrestling throw that is basicly exactly the same as Uchi Mata, but with a whizer, which Karo uses.

A mule Kick throw?

I have seen Randy and Van Arsdale do it in the UFC

From what I understand, in uchi mata, you use your leg for leverage not unlike the way you use your arm for leverage in the fireman's carry.

I have yet to see a throw resembling uchi mata in Greco-Roman, Freestlye, or American Folkstyle Wrestling.

A whizzer is a counter to a leg shoot where the 'defender' overhooks the nearest arm and drives the head into the mat with his other arm. It doesn't resemble the uchi mata at all. Another form of the whizzer is an escape that can be used while standing up from base. You break your opponent's grip, overhook the near arm, and wrap one of your legs with your opponent's near leg, attempting to trip him. This somewhat resembles the uchi mata, but this isn't a throw as much as it is a trip... and not a great trip, as most wrestlers won't fall but they will relinquish their grip on you, getting you escape points in American Folkstyle.

If there is another form of the whizzer where you actually thow the opponent, please inform me, and if possible post vids/pics, I'd be interested to see how it works.

Oh, and a mule kick throw?

I have no idea what that is.

But saying that something is a part of wrestling because a wrestler did it in MMA is eroneous. As I've said before, several throws that work in Judo and MMA don't necessarily work in wrestling, due to different stances and your center of gravity being positioned lower in wrestling.