Smith Machine, Legwork, and Nausea

**The Wastrel** · Posted On: 10/12/2003 5:31pm

Rob Wagner serves as the University of Pennsylvania’s strength and conditioning coach. Rob is certified by the National Strength and Conditioning Association as a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist. He is an author and nationwide speaker on weight training and is a contributing writer to Powerlifting USA magazine. Rob also serves as chair of the USA Powerlifting coaches committee and is currently completing his coursework in the Kinesiology doctoral program at Temple University.

He is a five-time National Powerlifting Champion in 3 different weight classes, and a six-time member of the USA National Powerlifting team. Wagner earned a gold medal in the squat at the 1996 World Championships and received a silver at the 2001 World Championships, in the same lift. He also holds or has held American squat records at 165 lbs. (690 lbs.), 181 lbs. (766 lbs.) and 198 lbs. (799 lbs.).

Myth #2. When you perform the squat, just bend your knees and go down
If you bend the knees first, it limits the hip’s freedom of movement. All the force is felt in the knees, and you will find yourself in a very awkward position on the balls of your feet. When performed properly the squat should start by gliding the hips backwards before the knees break. This is done while keeping the torso upright and is not simply a lean forward (Chandler, Wilson & Stone, 1989). It should be similar to sitting in a chair, especially a low chair. This posterior movement actually helps you get the weight over the arch of your foot. Having the weight on the toes or heel of the foot will affect muscle function and balance. This weight positioning becomes even more crucial when you reach the bottom of the squat. As the top of the thigh reaches a parallel to the floor position or below, it is now time to come up. If the weight is forward on the toes, there is a tendency for the hips to rise up faster than the shoulders, leaving you in a potentially poor leverage position. This situation is when the squat becomes a good morning exercise. The opposite result of having the weight in the heel will leave you stuck at the bottom position or on your backside due to the balance problem.

Is this guy wrong?

**TigerFly** · Posted On: 10/12/2003 6:15pm

Alot of people say that but I could give you a dozen more that say ASS to GRASS... There are varying beliefs on the issue. I have done both, so I can say from FIRST HAND experience that Ass to Grass is not only more effective from a musclular stand point but NO problem for the knees as well. You don't HAVE to listen, but you asked, so I answered. Continue to squat parallel, no one is forcing you to do otherwise. I don't have the energy to argue about something so elementary to be quite honest. You wanted advice, you got it, you didn't like it... continue to train the way you do.

**TigerFly** · Posted On: 10/12/2003 6:19pm

Type "ass to grass" into google in quotation marks... READ for yourself.

**Djimbe** · Posted On: 10/12/2003 7:23pm

Is this guy wrong?

Well , Yes and No .

You see the important part is here :

He is a five-time National Powerlifting Champion in 3 different weight classes, and a six-time member of the USA National Powerlifting team. Wagner earned a gold medal in the squat at the 1996 World Championships and received a silver at the 2001 World Championships, in the same lift. He also holds or has held American squat records at 165 lbs. (690 lbs.), 181 lbs. (766 lbs.) and 198 lbs. (799 lbs

Is he Wrong about how to be the best Compeditive 90degree Squatter , lift the most Pounds through Squatting , and win a Medal at Squatterry ?

Nope .

Is that going to make him as Fully Strong as he could Potentially be through all Ranges Of Motion ?

Nope .

So , well , if your END GOAL is MA , then Squat like a Marial Artist . If your End Goal is Competitive Lifting , then Squat like a Competitive Lifter .

**The Wastrel** · Posted On: 10/12/2003 7:40pm

TigerFly,
Why are you so defensive? Obviously this is a controversial question.

**TigerFly** · Posted On: 10/12/2003 7:45pm

Like I already told you, I am not defensive, I am just not going to waste my time arguing about it. I have tried both ways, I know which works better and why. You asked, I answered. You don't have to listen. You can read links and talk to other people if you so choose, but I am not going to debate a topic that I know is going nowhere.

**PizDoff** · Posted On: 10/13/2003 7:37pm

I reposted your question on a body building board Wastrel, I'll let you know what they say.

--
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Don't add me if you are going to be an idiot.

**TigerFly** · Posted On: 10/13/2003 9:51pm

I hope to hell it wasn't Bodybuilding.com. If you do more than one set per muscle group in a month they say you are "overtraining" worthless group of people. There might be 10 people that post there that actually train hard.

Like I said type "ass to grass" into Google... it gives you 10 pages of information regarding ass to grass squatting. Some of them against, most of the FOR it. I learned a long time ago to not do other peoples research. If you research it you OWN the information. If I provide it for you, it is still mine.

**The Wastrel** · Posted On: 10/13/2003 11:15pm

Sure. As it's clear this is something that is still being argued by academic kinesiologists, it would seem this comes down on the "what works for you" side.

**Dochter** · Posted On: 10/14/2003 10:09am

Djimbe is correct on most accounts, particularly about the smith machine fucking just about everything up. I however fall on the other side of the fence in regards to the "ass to the grass" debate. While you certainly are working a more limited range of motion by stopping at parallel, that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Firstly as Wastrel already pointed out the muscles being worked change past parallel. Secondly what is your training emphasis? If it’s stupid bodybuilding, then find out what piz reports.

If it is "martially" oriented take a look at the majority of the motions you'll be enacting. How often do you ever "wind up" some movement to the point where you'd get the benefit of working past parallel? Maybe occasionally on push kicks. Essentially you never/rarely go past parallel anyway and you can build sufficient secondary/support strength going deep on other leg exercises. Following this course of action does mean though that you have to be very clean on form and not cheat on how deep you're going, otherwise you wind up with the dreaded 4-inch squat.