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  1. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2003 12:25pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My keystone lifts for legwork are the squat and the sumo deadlift, but lately I've started working on a Smith machine.

    Now, when I work legs, I'm almost always finishing at a level of extreme nausea. Especially when I finish off with something like a sumo deadlift. I've never reached the vomit feeling with other muscle groups, only legs.

    But with the Smith machine, one or two sets...not even to failure...and I can feel the bile rising. But I'm not sure this is inherent to the exercise, or because I've been working legs at the end of a chest/back workout.

    Last week I couldn't finish legs because halfway through my gorge started to rise. So, if you're working legs and trying to really push your limit, is it better to work them on their own?

    What is the difference in legs that causes this to happen?

    And are the reps and ORM percentages really different for legs? Or is that a myth?
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  2. Djimbe is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2003 12:58pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My keystone lifts for legwork are the squat and the sumo deadlift, but lately I've started working on a Smith machine.
    Smith Machines are usu just used by ppl going Heavy on Shoulder Work that dont have a Spotter , and to Teach Form on the Leg Lifts . Usually after a Person has Decent Form they never go back to the Smith Machine .

    Now, when I work legs, I'm almost always finishing at a level of extreme nausea. Especially when I finish off with something like a sumo deadlift. I've never reached the vomit feeling with other muscle groups, only legs
    "Doc , it Hurts when I fo that"

    "WELL DONT DO THAT !"

    There are a LOT of ways that I Train Legs , none of them Involve the Smith Machine for ANYONE , with the sole exception of Front Squats .


    Last week I couldn't finish legs because halfway through my gorge started to rise. So, if you're working legs and trying to really push your limit, is it better to work them on their own?

    What is the difference in legs that causes this to happen?
    Yes . Leg Day is Sacrosanct . No other Muscular Concerns should Interfere with the Beauty that is Leg Day . No Stretching Is to be done within 3 hours of Lifting , and should likley not be done BEFORE Leg Training . Warm Ups , if needed , should be no More than 5 Min on a Stationary Cycle , if you werent Properly Warmed Up in that time , the Resistance wasnt set High enough . You need to work From BIG , to LITTLE . Squats/Legpress first , then the Smaller or Single Joint Movements .

    Why ? Because Leg Training sucks down the body's Resources HARD when youre trying to push yourself to teh Limit . Thats True on a Nutritional level , And a Neural one . You need to Start FRESH , and end DEPLETED . Its a Drag Race , not Cross Country . You should get as Close to your Limit as is Safeley Possible . Hence the 3-5 Reps .

    In fact , if I even feel a bit Tired , I will get a Nap , and then do Legs after Im Rested .

    And are the reps and ORM percentages really different for legs? Or is that a myth?
    Who told you that Bullshit ? Go Smack them . For that to be True Then the Muscles would have to be made of Different Materials than the ones in anoither part of the Body . Thats Rediculous .
  3. udo is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2003 1:22pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do you eat close to when you lift? I have had problems with bile/nausea on my leg lifts when i have eaten close to when I lifted.

    I also agree with what Djimbe said about rest.
  4. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2003 2:49pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Djimbe,
    I was under the impression that the Smith machine better isolates the quadriceps from the glutes, no?
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  5. Djimbe is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2003 3:13pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It CAN , by messing with your Stance , but :

    1) that fucks with your Stance

    and

    2) Squats are NOT meant as an Isolation Movement .

    You see , AFTER we do our Squats there are these things called Leg Extensions ...

    Power Lifts are theree to teach Full-Body Power , and Unified Motion . If you feel that a Particular Muscle is Lacking/Lagging , then use the Appropriate tool to deal with THAT MUSCLE . One should NEVER try to Tweak a Multijoint Excercise like that , the Weights involved , combined with the removal of Technique cn lead to SERIOUS Injuries .

    Squats should be Started VERY Light , and the Squatter should go until his Ass touches the Carpet . Form is FAR more Important than the Maximal poundadge that is being Lifted , and I can Saacrifice Form , or Squatting Depth to put on an extra Hundered Pounds , but who the **** am I really cheating here ?

    If you want to Work on your Quads Then there are Hack Squats , Front Squats , Sissy Squats (the BEST) Leg Extensions , the Invisible Chair , etc. .

    Dont put the Square Peg there .
  6. Djimbe is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2003 3:18pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh , I feel it bears Mentioning that when you START OUT , your Quads are probably "Too Strong For Your Squat" so to speak . by that I mean , they are probably the MOST in shape of all the Muscles NEEDED to Squat Properly , and it can take up to TWO YEARS (Depending on Athleticism - or lack thereof) for everything to be Evened out so that as you add Poundage to your Squat everything is working Evenly . You only Progress through Squatting DEEPLY AS POSSIBLE with the form as STRICT as Possible . Otherwise , you end up doing Idiotic 4-Inch Repst with 1000 lbs . Whats the friggin Point ? Your Knewes will be shot anyway with that Approach .
  7. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2003 3:47pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why on earth would you go that deep? That puts huge stress on the knees as the load moves from your quads.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  8. TigerFly is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2003 4:24pm


     Style: Big Cans O' Whoopass!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are misinformed. Squatting Ass to grass puts no more strain on the knees as long as your form is proper. Ass to grass brings your Hamstrings and Glutes into the picture as well as the outside of your quads. It is actually the FULL movement versus the parallel movement being a partial movement.

    The key is proper form... if you don't have form DON'T squat at all. The smith machine is a great tool to learn proper form, because UNLESS you have good form on the smith, you can't squat ass to grass... it is nearly impossible. The physics of the movement aren't possible if you aren't properly aligned on the Smith. I, like nearly everyone had to learn on the smith, now I don't need it. I can squat with perfect form ass to grass off the smith with free weights. It takes time and practice... and literally trial and error in foot placement, width and how your toes point... where under the bar you stand etc.

    Basically... the movement is NO different as far as stress on the knee then when you go parallel.
  9. Djimbe is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2003 4:37pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    nah , not really , you have it on your Knees pretty much from the time you Unrack it . Unless youre doing something really wierd like Sissy Squats or something . Oh , and as these are HARDER from a muscular Standpoint , youre actually going to be using LESS weight , and putting LESS of a Burden on your Joints .
  10. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2003 4:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry, I can't swallow that one. As soon as the quad is below the knee, the load is no longer being held by the upper leg. "Ass to grass" might rhyme, but I can't see how it's not going to injure you. Unless to you, it means parallel.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
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